Kultivator "Barndomens Stigar"

[chalkpie]

I know that this record gets the no. 2 or 3 spot at Gnosis, and is generally highly regarded amonsgt the avant-prog-weirdo-snob crowd, but I have never felt the deep love for this one. I like it, but mostly not more than that. What am I missing? I tried again a few days ago and although I probably liked it more than on previous tries, its still like a 6 or 7 out of 10. Who loves this thing? I'll keep trying.

[battema]

Honestly, I'm in the same camp as you...I like it fine, but it isn't the first thing I reach for for avant, zeuhl, or the like. For me, a nice middle-of-the-road effort.

[Zeuhlmate]

I spin it very rarely, its definetely o.k., but not all tracks are unforgettable. Dont get sleepless because you dont own it.
Canterbury-zeuhl and a first album. Not as wellrehearsed as ... lets say Setna.

[Sputnik]

I really like it. They remind me a lot of National Health at times. For me, it's got a very nice balance of complexity and accessibility, along with really great energy. The compositions also make a lot of sense to me, evolving in really natural ways that hold your attention across the length of the piece, even with the twists and turns. To me, this is one of the key elements of the best Prog, and is one reason I think this disc is so strong. It took me a couple of spins to start to hear some of the more interesting things going on, but once it clicked it's been a go-to album for me for a long time.

What is it exactly that doesn't work for you, the vocals? The compositions? The playing? The overall vibe? I'm actually somewhat surprised you don't like it that much, it seems it would have been right up your alley based on other stuff you enjoy.

Bill

[nosebone]

I really like it. They remind me a lot of National Health at times. For me, it's got a very nice balance of complexity and accessibility, along with really great energy. The compositions also make a lot of sense to me, evolving in really natural ways that hold your attention across the length of the piece, even with the twists and turns. To me, this is one of the key elements of the best Prog, and is one reason I think this disc is so strong. It took me a couple of spins to start to hear some of the more interesting things going on, but once it clicked it's been a go-to album for me for a long time.

What is it exactly that doesn't work for you, the vocals? The compositions? The playing? The overall vibe? I'm actually somewhat surprised you don't like it that much, it seems it would have been right up your alley based on other stuff you enjoy.

Bill

This is how I feel also.

I believe this was a very young band whose shortcomings are revealed here & there throughout the CD, but that's part of its charm.

[Udi Koomran]

I like it but honestly I think its a bit overrated

[MJBrady]

Considering it's a period piece, what 1980? It has to be factored into the overall appreciation aspect, it still rates pretty good for me for that era.

[NogbadTheBad]

I like it well enough but I'd hardly call it genre defining, it's a nice record that I enjoy if it comes up on shuffle, can't say I've specifically reached for it in a while.

[chalkpie]

What is it exactly that doesn't work for you, the vocals? The compositions? The playing? The overall vibe? I'm actually somewhat surprised you don't like it that much, it seems it would have been right up your alley based on other stuff you enjoy.

Seems like a combination of these things. The title track for instance - gets off to an amazing start ( I love renaissance/early music) but once the "prog" kicks in, its pretty much a tune that I never need to listen to again. Doesn't really grab me or develop into anything - IMO. The bass is also flat which has always annoyed me. I dunno - its not terrible by any means - but perhaps overrated (like Udi said) if this is purportedly the 2nd or 3rd best record to ever come out of Sweden.

What says you Col Ball-Snipper?

[Scrotum Scissor]

Honorary da Ballzack (w. dagger) chiming in here!

I think it's a great album, sometimes even excellent - but no, it's not a flawless "masterpiece". I think the story behind its status is somewhat important, though; around the time of release (early 80s), the whole 'progressive rock' phenomenon was actually still a big deal with some underground audiences who'd come to expect it to continue developing and advancing. And as in France around the same time, this sort of music had pretty much converted into something way more radical than the 'symphonic' rock music that had dominated the progressive movement in Sweden during the second half of the 70s. There were some extremely intriguing outcomes from this; bands such as Psynkopat, Myrbein, Archimedes Badkar and Kräldjursanstalten serve as examples, as do Kultivator. Simultaneously, there was a whole cultural movement defining itself as "progg" (note the two g's) and denoting not primarily a musical but a political and social approach to the concept of cultural progressivism. Samla Mammas Manna, who were the main influence of all experimental progressive groups in Sweden, had very much belonged to the "progg" axis on participating in the establishment of the leftist independent records label Musiknätet Waxholm, which was run as a musical cooperative involved in both recording and production, organizing and financing of all activity amongst the musicians. Bands like Kultivator, Zut Un Feu Rouge and Kräldjursanstalten were different, adhering to both the remnants of the progressive wave and the new, post-punk cultural impulse; indeed, Kultivator's keys player Johan Hedren went on to play with Lars Jonsson in the much heralded avant/industrial trio Ur Kaos (whose entire discography is indispensable for collectors of experimental rock from Scandinavia) - thus forming a direct bond between otherwise rather disparate generations of the avant-garde in Swedish rock.

[Udi Koomran]

Kräldjursanstalten much more to my taste
You know them Frank ?

[Scrotum Scissor]

^

Kräldjursanstalten was one of the weirdest rock bands to ever assemble. Mikael Maksymenko (drummer and vocalist) would appear centre-front stage, and claimed in all sincereity to have based all of his musical understanding on the technical tactics of the coach for the Soviet national hockey team in the 60s. The remaining two members of the trio were siamese twin bros Stefan and Tomas Agaton, who'd wear the exact same dressups and hairdos and - according to Maksymenko - would mostly speak simultaneously. Maksymenko would later also claim that even after having played with the bros for years there'd still be incidents where he got their individual identities mixed up, seeing how they were both pretty good at both guitar and bass. Christ, not even Spinal Tap's farce of the arts could have been able to create anything even remotely as bizarre as that!

I also find a lot to dig in the goofy Myrbein, who - like Kräldjursanstalten - were completely DIY and would mostly play alongside punk or post-punk groups.

[chalkpie]

^

Kräldjursanstalten was one of the weirdest rock bands to ever assemble. Mikael Maksymenko (drummer and vocalist) would appear centre-front stage, and claimed in all sincereity to have based all of his musical understanding on the technical tactics of the coach for the Soviet national hockey team in the 60s. The remaining two members of the trio were siamese twin bros Stefan and Tomas Agaton, who'd wear the exact same dressups and hairdos and - according to Maksymenko - would mostly speak simultaneously. Maksymenko would later also claim that even after having played with the bros for years there'd still be incidents where he got their individual identities mixed up, seeing how they were both pretty good at both guitar and bass. Christ, not even Spinal Tap's farce of the arts could have been able to create anything even remotely as bizarre as that!

Holy fuckin shit!! Haha!! Oh man - this had me tearing up I was just laughing so hard. WTF??!! Love that!! Sort of makes Magma seem like George Thorogood in comparison.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^

And you haven't even heard the music yet!


[Alright, so they were identical twins - not actually siamese ones]

[chalkpie]

Honorary da Ballzack (w. dagger) chiming in here!

I think it's a great album, sometimes even excellent - but no, it's not a flawless "masterpiece". I think the story behind its status is somewhat important, though; around the time of release (early 80s), the whole 'progressive rock' phenomenon was actually still a big deal with some underground audiences who'd come to expect it to continue developing and advancing. And as in France around the same time, this sort of music had pretty much converted into something way more radical than the 'symphonic' rock music that had dominated the progressive movement in Sweden during the second half of the 70s. There were some extremely intriguing outcomes from this; bands such as Psynkopat, Myrbein, Archimedes Badkar and Kräldjursanstalten serve as examples, as do Kultivator. Simultaneously, there was a whole cultural movement defining itself as "progg" (note the two g's) and denoting not primarily a musical but a political and social approach to the concept of cultural progressivism. Samla Mammas Manna, who were the main influence of all experimental progressive groups in Sweden, had very much belonged to the "progg" axis on participating in the establishment of the leftist independent records label Musiknätet Waxholm, which was run as a musical cooperative involved in both recording and production, organizing and financing of all activity amongst the musicians. Bands like Kultivator, Zut Un Feu Rouge and Kräldjursanstalten were different, adhering to both the remnants of the progressive wave and the new, post-punk cultural impulse; indeed, Kultivator's keys player Johan Hedren went on to play with Lars Jonsson in the much heralded avant/industrial trio Ur Kaos (whose entire discography is indispensable for collectors of experimental rock from Scandinavia) - thus forming a direct bond between otherwise rather disparate generations of the avant-garde in Swedish rock.

Awesome - thanks mate. What orifice do you pull this stuff out of? Actually keep that part to yourself and just keep snipping ball bags. Why haven't you written a prog book yet? What are you drinkin' this weekend? Progg livess!

[chalkpie]

Kräldjursanstalten much more to my taste
You know them Frank ?

No but will check out - grazie.

[Scrotum Scissor]

What are you drinkin' this weekend? Progg livess!

I'm with my five-year old this weekend, so there's only First Price Lipton to go on such occasion! I do treat him to some progg, tho' - just played him Zamlaranamma this very afternoon, but kids mostly love that stuff. He's a sucker for Magma and Gong as well, but he started screaming when I tried presenting him with Nico's Marble Index and was green in the face by the time I got around to that Shub-Niggurath.

I'll be having Nemirovskaya and Bowmore next weekend, as I'm "only" seeing my 18-year old for supper then and bitching him about receiving all too solid grades at school and displaying much too much respect for authority'n'shit. I got him a Dälek CD once, though.

[Steve F.]

Richard, did you actually see Krald??

Maksymenko had a semi recent, amazingly great band that unfortunately never made it out of the rehearsal stage called The Reference Group, with Ulf Danielsson on bass (iirc), Matthias (of My Brother The Wind) on one guitar and Jimmy Agren on the other guitar and Michael.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Richard, did you actually see Krald??

Nope, but I once had one of the most interesting musical conversations of my life with a guy who had. Now this is 19 years ago (at Berns Salonger in Stockholm during the Record Heaven progressive rock fest there - one of the debut appearances of those Flower Kings, btw ), but I remember him telling me about seeing a whole string of oddball bands back in the late 70s/early 80s, and he was the first dude from whom I got to know about Bauta Records. He also told me he'd seen Prazsky Vyber and MCH Band in Brno during the 80s - cold war era - which was essentially how my interest in that scene took completely off. It was also when speaking to him that I first heard the name Simon Steensland.

[Progbear]

I know that this record gets the no. 2 or 3 spot at Gnosis, and is generally highly regarded amonsgt the avant-prog-weirdo-snob crowd, but I have never felt the deep love for this one. I like it, but mostly not more than that. What am I missing? I tried again a few days ago and although I probably liked it more than on previous tries, its still like a 6 or 7 out of 10. Who loves this thing? I'll keep trying.

It’s not one of my favourites of all time, but I do like it. I’m afraid I don’t really hear the much-vaunted “Zeuhl” influence on this one, this is more a Hatfield/National Health kind of album to my ears, replete with Northettes-y vocals and with a kind of Nordic folk influence (oh, that recorder!). I’ve never been big on the Fender Rhodes sound, but their tone on this disc is spiky and satisfying. They gave bite to an instrument that always makes me think of smooth jazz and 70s slush pop otherwise.

For whatever reason, I associate them with Myrbein, whose one album never really clicked with me for whatever reason, despite some slight sonic similarities.

[Sputnik]

The bass is also flat which has always annoyed me.

I agree, bass is a little flat. This isn't a sonic masterpiece by any means.

I dunno - its not terrible by any means - but perhaps overrated (like Udi said) if this is purportedly the 2nd or 3rd best record to ever come out of Sweden.

This makes it sound like you're a victim of over-inflated expectations. Who cares who the Gnosis rating is or whether it's over/under-rated. If you don't dig it that much, so be it, but don't make it try to live up to unrealistic expectations and highly subjective opinions.

I gave the album a fresh spin tonight and as I said above, I like it a lot. Is it a perfect masterpiece? No. But I enjoyed it, and my wife said she was glad I spun it tonight and thought it was a really good album. The subject of whether it was the third or fourth best Swedish Prog album didn't come up.

I’m afraid I don’t really hear the much-vaunted “Zeuhl” influence on this one, this is more a Hatfield/National Health kind of album to my ears, replete with Northettes-y vocals and with a kind of Nordic folk influence

I totally agree, I also have never heard much Zeuhl here. But funny enough my wife mentioned when the album was over she thought is was quite Zeuhl sounding. I was surprised and asked her why. She just said the overall vibe and the bass sound to some extent. I still disagree, but obviously some do associate this with Zeuhl.

For whatever reason, I associate them with Myrbein, whose one album never really clicked with me for whatever reason, despite some slight sonic similarities.

I have the Myrbein, and it has never really clicked for me either. It's one of those I often consider letting go, but it is a bit of a rarity. To me, the Kultivator is light years ahead of Myrbein, but mileage may vary.

Bill

[moecurlythanu]

It’s not one of my favourites of all time, but I do like it. I’m afraid I don’t really hear the much-vaunted “Zeuhl” influence on this one, this is more a Hatfield/National Health kind of album to my ears, replete with Northettes-y vocals and with a kind of Nordic folk influence (oh, that recorder!). I’ve never been big on the Fender Rhodes sound, but their tone on this disc is spiky and satisfying. They gave bite to an instrument that always makes me think of smooth jazz and 70s slush pop otherwise.

Bingo, including the general take on Fender Rhodes.

For whatever reason, I associate them with Myrbein, whose one album never really clicked with me for whatever reason, despite some slight sonic similarities.

They don't remind me of Myrbein, which is fine, as I don't really care for them.

[smcfee]

I put this on to bask in how overrated it is, and really enjoyed it. Thanks for reminding me of its existence, guys .

[Smörgåsbord]

I’m afraid I don’t really hear the much-vaunted “Zeuhl” influence on this one, this is more a Hatfield/National Health kind of album to my ears, replete with Northettes-y vocals and with a kind of Nordic folk influence (oh, that recorder!).

I totally agree with this. If one has heard Hatfield/NH, it's an enigma to me why the comparison with Zeuhl would ever come to mind.

I think it's excellent.

[Scrotum Scissor]

it's an enigma to me why the comparison with Zeuhl would ever come to mind.

I think it's excellent.

Well, there IS some throbbing bass involved (including in the closing of that title track, posted above), and the repetitive Rhodes patterns certainly give off an impression. However, I agree that the Zeuhl quotient is not very stressed, and I sometimes imagine if the comparison has something to do with the fact that a couple of the band members themselves expressed admiration for Magma.