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Thread: Beach Boys - SMiLE Sessions

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    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Beach Boys - SMiLE Sessions

    Hi folks,

    So as many of you know, I'm a younger guy and a college student, so a lot of my musical discovery is playing 'catch up'! I recently took a rock appreciation course (and even got the chance to give a lecture on Frank Zappa), and since then, I've become more interested in the history of experimental, art, progressive rock, etc. So, I've finally been diving into the works of people like The Beatles and The Beach Boys, who've been hitherto absent from my collection.

    Okay, so I've got SMiLE Sessions now and I like it, appreciate it, etc, despite it being older than me and then some! My question is, what's the deal with the mono sound? Is this the only way to hear SMiLE?

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    ^I too am a younger fan and have been playing catch-up most of my life!

    I don't have the box, but the reason for the mono mixing on the album is because that's how the album would have been released at the time as Brian Wilson didn't do stereo mixes (some speculate this was Phil Spector's influence or Brian's problem with one of his ears). 'Pet Sounds' too was only in mono until the 1990s when a true stereo mix was done.

    I think really a stereo mix should have been done here as well, although some of its songs were mixed into stereo when they appeared on Beach Boys albums ('Our Prayer', 'Cabinessence', 'Surf's Up') in the late 60s/early 70s.

    It remains unfinished, so some of the segues between tracks which were done for the 2004 Brian Wilson one aren't here.

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Brian is deaf in one ear, so mono was his preferred method until he could not get away with it any more / wasn't involved enough to be able to demand what he wanted.

    Good mono beats lousy stereo.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    p.s.

    Everything is older than you. Get used to it.



    Then it goes away and you'll miss it.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Good mono beats lousy stereo.
    Totally agree. What woke me up to this was the mono 'Piper At The Gates Of Dawn'.

    I suspect one reason why this has not had a full stereo release is because one of its corner pieces 'Good Vibrations' is apparently hard/impossible to mix into true stereo.

    Indeed the 90s stereo 'Pet Sounds' has its issues, with missing vocal parts on one or two songs. Clearly the mono should *always* be the standard, but the stereo is interesting for the increased clarity. The same would be true here.

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    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Everything is older than you. Get used to it.



    Then it goes away and you'll miss it.
    I miss everything being older than me.

    I miss the president of the United States being older than me!

    Good old Brian Wilson, though, he's still older than me.

    Nice to have something you can rely on.

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    I miss everything being older than me.

    I miss the president of the United States being older than me!

    Good old Brian Wilson, though, he's still older than me.

    Nice to have something you can rely on.
    Yeah. It hit me some time ago re: the president being younger than me....
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

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    There are two ways to listen to SMiLE - listen to the "SMiLE sessions" release, which is actual 1967 recordings, or listen to "Brian Wilson presents SMiLE", which is Brian's completed version of the project, with 2000's technology and the help of the Wondermints and Van Dyke Parks. The latter sounds better to my ears, as indeed it should, but the other has a few interesting little differences, noticeable for example on "Child is Father of the Man" and "Surf's Up", as well as, obviously, missing lyrics on the song that eventually became "In Blue Hawaii".

    All in all, I'd say Brian and the Wondermints achieved the seemingly impossible feat of completing and actually improving on the recordings, while still managing to sound just like the Beach Boys.

    Love it or loathe it, there is no album like SMiLE, and no album with a history anything like the history of SMiLE. If the plot was submitted as a novel, the editor would reject it as being too improbable.
    Last edited by bob_32_116; 05-31-2015 at 02:36 AM.

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    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Like I said on my BBs thread, I downloaded a Smile bootleg about 12 years ago. It did nothing for me then. Heard it recently and I had a much better impression. Our Prayer is breathtaking. BTW, I'm playing catchup too and I'm 57.

    I had the same experience with Pet Sounds. I bought it about 10-12 years ago. I thought it was boring. I didn't "get it." I gots it now. Brian Wilson is God.

  10. #10
    I love the Brian Wilson recent version except-- nothing, but nothing can beat the vocal sound of the BBs when they were young. The Wondermints do an admirable job but the original wins on the singing. The new one wins on everything else though *lol*

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post

    All in all, I'd say Brian and the Wondermints achieved the seemingly impossible feat of completing and actually improving on the recordings, while still managing to sound just like the Beach Boys.
    As someone who waited decades for Smile and who saw the completely fabulous Smile tour w/the Wondermints and Brian, I felt that way too...until I heard Smile sessions.

    As good of a job as WM, BW and VDP did, they were not able to recapture the magic and the innocence and the sense of wonderous psychedelic discovery that BW had with the 1966 recordings.

    YMMV, but I am firmly in the 1966 camp.
    Steve F.

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    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

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    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    I went for the SMiLE Sessions for the same reasons I would want to hear We're Only in it for the Money minus the 80s bass and drum overdubs. Because I want to hear the original artists / musicians and how it sounded at the time it was created.

  13. #13
    Well, remember that as cool as the SMiLE session are, you're hearing an unfinished work made by guys that largely hated it. So the Brian Wilson version has a lot of cred in that regard. But, I agree that there's an ieffible spirit in the original sessions regardless, especially the vocals. But, to really hear the completed work there is only one actual realized version and that's Brian's.

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    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Saw another documentary about Brian titled "Brian Wilson Songwriter 1969-1982." He was lost during that period. I haven't heard any post-Pet, BBs stuff but I'm kinda curious about it.

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Well, remember that as cool as the SMiLE session are, you're hearing an unfinished work made by guys that largely hated it.
    Yes. The reluctance of the group and being forced into it is also something that couldn't be recaptured.

    I mean, everything you say is true, but it doesn't matter because, for me, the 1966 recordings have the magic in a way the completed and even 'better' recordings just don't. IMO, of course.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Well, remember that as cool as the SMiLE session are, you're hearing an unfinished work made by guys that largely hated it. So the Brian Wilson version has a lot of cred in that regard. But, I agree that there's an ieffible spirit in the original sessions regardless, especially the vocals. But, to really hear the completed work there is only one actual realized version and that's Brian's.
    I'm not sure they all hated it. Brian didn't, obviously, and I'm sure I recall reading a quote from Dennis stating that SMiLE was as far ahead of Pet Sounds as Pet Sounds was ahead of its predecessor. The hating probably came from the ill-named Mike Love, and possibly Al Jardine.

    I'm not really all that stressed about the old vs new recording argument - I love them both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Saw another documentary about Brian titled "Brian Wilson Songwriter 1969-1982." He was lost during that period. I haven't heard any post-Pet, BBs stuff but I'm kinda curious about it.
    There's plenty of discussion about it elsewhere on this board. I'd say check it out, but choose wisely. I'd recommend Sunflower, Surf's Up, and That's Why God Made the Radio. Holland is pretty good in parts, though patchy, and Carl & the Passions even more so, but both have some gems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    I went for the SMiLE Sessions for the same reasons I would want to hear We're Only in it for the Money minus the 80s bass and drum overdubs. Because I want to hear the original artists / musicians and how it sounded at the time it was created.
    Not really comparable because on 'Brian Wilson Presents Smile' the instruments used were as close to the original as possible. No danger of awful synth/drum sounds or whatever. An effort was made to make it as musically close as you could get to how it would have been at the time, with the caveat of Brian's vocals sounding very different and lacking the Beach Boys' harmonies.

    If you want to hear it completely finished, the 2004 version is as good as you're going to get- I think there were only some differences in terms of where certain tracks were placed, but segues were added so it has more flow and some lyrics were added on one or two songs. But the historical interest will always be in The Beach Boys' somewhat unfinished version, and rightly so.

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    Member progholio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    As someone who waited decades for Smile and who saw the completely fabulous Smile tour w/the Wondermints and Brian, I felt that way too...until I heard Smile sessions.

    As good of a job as WM, BW and VDP did, they were not able to recapture the magic and the innocence and the sense of wonderous psychedelic discovery that BW had with the 1966 recordings.

    YMMV, but I am firmly in the 1966 camp.
    My milage is exactly the same, loved the BW Presents Smile when it came out but after the release of the Smile Sessions I haven't looked back. It's pretty remarkable that they were able to reconstruct the Sessions into a very coherent record.

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    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Listened to about half of this today and was loving it.

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    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    How great is that harpsichord sound? And you know, once you get used to it, that whole dark mono sound is not without its charm. Love the bass sound too.

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    I must say I could have done without all the "out-takes". Must-have gems like "Brian falling into a piano." Or at least they should have confined them to the second disc, so I could play the album on the first disc without having to rush to hit the stop button at the end. 24 takes of the main motif from Heroes and Villains FFS. And that's only on the 2-disc abridged version of the Sessions.

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    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I must say I could have done without all the "out-takes". Must-have gems like "Brian falling into a piano." Or at least they should have confined them to the second disc, so I could play the album on the first disc without having to rush to hit the stop button at the end. 24 takes of the main motif from Heroes and Villains FFS. And that's only on the 2-disc abridged version of the Sessions.
    I was a little curious about the Smile sessions set but I'm not one for this type of stuff. I don't even have the Beatles Anthology CDs. These endless takes and studio banter and all that doesn't interest me. Why didn't they just take all these tracks and make an attempt to assemble an actual album the way it was intended? Well, I guess one could make their own version of Smile using their computer and burning software.

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I must say I could have done without all the "out-takes". Must-have gems like "Brian falling into a piano." Or at least they should have confined them to the second disc, so I could play the album on the first disc without having to rush to hit the stop button at the end. 24 takes of the main motif from Heroes and Villains FFS. And that's only on the 2-disc abridged version of the Sessions.
    I have the single disc version of SMILE SESSIONS, so it isn't a problem.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I have the single disc version of SMILE SESSIONS, so it isn't a problem.
    I wasn't even aware there was a single-disc version. I only knew of the 2-disc version and the full 5-disc set. Goodness knows what was on the other 3 discs... the Beach Boys eating their lunch, the Beach Boys burping, the Beach Boys farting...

    In my case the 2-disc SMiLE Sessions was a prize from a newspaper competition, therefore i got it for nothing, so I can't complain too much.

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    The double disc one in a box didn't cost much more than the single disc one.

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