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Thread: Can-Utility, Cinema Show & The Lamb lies down... in Steve Hackett's 2015 tour

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    Can-Utility, Cinema Show & The Lamb lies down... in Steve Hackett's 2015 tour

    At last Steve Hackett decided to include Can-Utility and Cinema Show in his "From Acolyte to Wolflight and Genesis Revisited" tour for 2015. I Always thought that this two songs (two of the greatest Genesis songs IMHO) were unjustly left out in his Genesis Revisited tours. Hoping for a DVD (i'm sure it will come out) of this concerts.

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    Member PotatoSolution's Avatar
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    For future reference...

    Thread Title: Steve Hackett set list discussion - contains spoilers
    Making Wikipedia marginally more interesting at:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCul...PXchSo_vDxtcLg

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Old Thread Recycling Warning!!!!!


    So, does "Can-utility" mean something to people in the UK that it doesn't to us in the US? I always thought it might be what people in the UK call Can Openers (maybe electric ones?).

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    I loved getting to see this in concert and back-to-back with Get Em Out By Friday. Anyway, turns out there's a wiki page just for Can-Utility. According to wiki, its about King Canute of Denmark from the 11th century. I can only imagine that "Can-utility" is an attempt at spoofing the name "Canute".

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    Member Vic333's Avatar
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    Well, that just seems obscure for obscurities sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic333 View Post
    Well, that just seems obscure for obscurities sake.
    More obscure than "undinal songs", "take a little trip back with Father Tiresias" or "still alone in o-hell-o"? We are talking about Genesis here, after all.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    According to wiki, its about King Canute of Denmark from the 11th century.
    King of Denmark, England and Norway, not just Denmark, so he's part of English history, not an 'exotic' reference.
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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    I loved getting to see this in concert and back-to-back with Get Em Out By Friday. Anyway, turns out there's a wiki page just for Can-Utility. According to wiki, its about King Canute of Denmark from the 11th century. I can only imagine that "Can-utility" is an attempt at spoofing the name "Canute".
    Essentially correct. He was a Dane who became King in the part of England known as the Danelaw. This is the area conquered and settled by Viking invaders. It was a large tract of land primarily (but not exclusively) in the north and east of England. The song recounts the formerly well-known tale of how Canute (also spelled Knut or Knute,) in order to demonstrate his omnipotent power, had his throne placed on the shore of a large body of water. He then commanded the incoming tide to stop and turn back. It of course, did not, and the legend (which may have never actually happened,) is used to illustrate human limitation as well as the arrogance of power. IIRC.

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    Member TheH's Avatar
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    Wasn't it called "Bye Bye Johnny" first? Maybe that one is less obscure..

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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ Yes, as a working title.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    The song recounts the formerly well-known tale of how Canute (also spelled Knut or Knute,) in order to demonstrate his omnipotent power, had his throne placed on the shore of a large body of water. He then commanded the incoming tide to stop and turn back. It of course, did not, and the legend (which may have never actually happened,) is used to illustrate human limitation as well as the arrogance of power. IIRC.
    This is a common misunderstanding of the legend of Canute attempting to turn back the tide. Actually the stunt was a demonstration to his fawning courtiers that the king was only human. Genesis got it right:

    They told of one who tired of all
    Singing "Praise him, praise him"
    "We heed not flatterers," he cried...
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    Cnut's reign was an important moment in English history because it broke the cycle of Anglo Saxon rulers up til that time and made the Danes/Vikings legal heirs to the crown. It also more or less cemented the Danes/Vikings into English culture and society forever.

    Cnut also had ties to the Normans on his wife's side, which were enhanced when Cnut's son Harthacnut died without an heir, leaving the crown to Cnut's stepson Edward the Confessor who had been living in exile in Normandy until then.

    And the rest is history....
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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Cnut's reign was an important moment in English history because it broke the cycle of Anglo Saxon rulers up til that time and made the Danes/Vikings legal heirs to the crown.
    Did it really make the Danes/Vikings legal heirs to the crown? Reading the entry in Wikipedia, it sounds like they just invaded and took over. Of course, Wikipedia could be wrong, or unclear. But I think there are lots of other places in the world where the armies from other countries invaded and took over, and to this day they're still not considered "legal" heirs, whether or not they're still in power.

    What was it that made the Danes/Vikings legal heirs to the crown? I'm not disputing it, I just don't know!

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    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Did it really make the Danes/Vikings legal heirs to the crown? Reading the entry in Wikipedia, it sounds like they just invaded and took over. Of course, Wikipedia could be wrong, or unclear. But I think there are lots of other places in the world where the armies from other countries invaded and took over, and to this day they're still not considered "legal" heirs, whether or not they're still in power.

    What was it that made the Danes/Vikings legal heirs to the crown? I'm not disputing it, I just don't know!
    Up until then Danes and Vikings were either fought off or paid off. But with Cnut it was really the first time the Anglo Saxons said, "OK, your our king." It's true he came to power through force, but that was SOP back then. When I say "legal" I just mean they went along with it rather than contesting it. And he did rule for a while, which helped seal the deal. His own son succeeded him without a fuss, and then his stepson -- also without too much drama. That wouldn't have happened had the Anglo Saxons thought Cnut wasn't the rightful ruler to begin with.
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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    This is a common misunderstanding of the legend of Canute attempting to turn back the tide. Actually the stunt was a demonstration to his fawning courtiers that the king was only human. Genesis got it right:

    They told of one who tired of all
    Singing "Praise him, praise him"
    "We heed not flatterers," he cried...
    Interesting, and possibly spot on. It certainly fits the Genesis lyric. I first heard it as a child, and I think I relayed in in the manner in which I heard it. Doesn't mean it was right.

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Up until then Danes and Vikings were either fought off or paid off. But with Cnut it was really the first time the Anglo Saxons said, "OK, your our king." It's true he came to power through force, but that was SOP back then. When I say "legal" I just mean they went along with it rather than contesting it. And he did rule for a while, which helped seal the deal. His own son succeeded him without a fuss, and then his stepson -- also without too much drama. That wouldn't have happened had the Anglo Saxons thought Cnut wasn't the rightful ruler to begin with.
    Thanks! Interesting stuff.

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    Member Vic333's Avatar
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    Interesting indeed. Would this be the type of history taught in an English history class? Or an aspect of Steve's interest in history?

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    Last edited by Vic333; 11-17-2018 at 10:39 PM.

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    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic333 View Post
    Interesting indeed. Would this be the type of history taught in an English history class? Or an aspect of Steve's interest in history?
    I think the guys in Genesis were raised with an awareness of their history, but from the perspective of children's fables and tall tales. Cnut sat on a chair commanding the ocean to recede. Alfred burnt the cakes, etc. The same way that one of the first thing American children learn about George Washington was that he cut down a cherry tree. For all of us, it's only later that we might learn the true history behind these people if we choose to. But the fables make for much more interesting song lyrics!
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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    I think the guys in Genesis were raised with an awareness of their history, but from the perspective of children's fables and tall tales. Cnut sat on a chair commanding the ocean to recede. Alfred burnt the cakes, etc. The same way that one of the first thing American children learn about George Washington was that he cut down a cherry tree. For all of us, it's only later that we might learn the true history behind these people if we choose to. But the fables make for much more interesting song lyrics!
    I didn't know the story of Alfred burning the cakes, but now this line from the Roy Harper song "1948ish" has more meaning to me:

    "Welcome to my nightmare, it's the one in which I always burn the cakes."


    BTW, I had to look up the Alfred story and found this interesting, astute quote:

    “If history were taught in the form of stories, it would never be forgotten.” Rudyard Kipling.

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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post


    BTW, I had to look up the Alfred story and found this interesting, astute quote:

    “If history were taught in the form of stories, it would never be forgotten.” Rudyard Kipling.
    Long ago, that's the only way it was taught. Of course, it tended to lead to embellishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSolution View Post
    I saw them three months later, by which time they'd dropped this terrific "mini epic." Pity.
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