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Thread: Frank Zappa: Joe's Garage

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progtopia View Post
    I don't have the new remaster, but I'm a big fan of this one. It's got what I consider some of the best musicians ever to play with Zappa, a fun concept, and Sy Borg, which sells the show all on its own. I just need to have a lot of free time to break it out, because when I listen to this one, I don't want to be distracted.
    Is Sy Borg a FZ character?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacoblietho View Post
    Those were list printed 20 years ago. I can't find them now. It was you who said that Joe's Garage were more popular in the USA than in Europe. So I ask, what lists are YOU looking at?
    Huh? I never said any such thing. Where do you see that?

  3. #28
    Some wiki facts on Joe's

    For his performance on Joe's Garage, Vinnie Colaiuta was named "the most technically advanced drummer ever" by Modern Drummer, which ranked the album as one of the top 25 greatest drumming performances of all time

    The album concludes with a long guitar instrumental, "Watermelon in Easter Hay", the only guitar solo recorded for the album; every other guitar solo on the album was xenochronous—overdubbed from older live recordings. In their review of the album, Down Beat magazine criticized the song but subsequent reviewers have championed the song as Zappa's masterpiece. Lowe called it the "crowning achievement of the album" and "one of the most gorgeous pieces of music ever produced Zappa told Neil Slaven that he thought it was "the best song on the album". After Zappa died, "Watermelon in Easter Hay" became known as one of his signature songs, and his son, Dweezil Zappa, later referred to it as "the best solo Zappa ever played".

    Joe's Garage was the final album Zappa recorded at a commercial studio.Zappa's own studio, the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen, built as an addition to Zappa's home, and completed in late 1979, was used to record and mix all of his subsequent releases.

  4. #29
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacoblietho View Post
    Joe's Garage made top 20 in almost all of western Europe, while it hardly made a dent on the top 200 in America.

    Don't know about this... In Canada - despite the sex thing in the lyrics which sort of limited radio airplay - JG was all over the kids' conversations >> given the piles of JG in record shops, it sold a solid amount, IMHO ... It's hard to believe that after Sheik Yerbouti's commercial success, JG would've missed the Billboard 200 in the US
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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  6. #31
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    I just finished listening to the Ryko cds back in Nov. I find the first album excellent like I did in 1979 when I first bought it. But,I too get really fatigued with the Sy_Borg operetta. It's just too much XXX nonsense for me at 60. There is however one of the best puns I ever heard him use: "You're plooking too hard,you're plooking too hard,on meeeeeeeeeeeee." I always wondered if Sky Saxon of The Seeds ever heard it?

  7. #32
    Re: Watermelon

    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Dweezil Zappa, later referred to it as "the best solo Zappa ever played".
    Dweezil has said that there is one song he will not play with ZPZ because he felt he could not play it and honor Frank, I'm guessing its this song. I don't agree that its Zappa's best solo ever (for me, his solo in Inca Roads will always be the best) but its his most emotive solo ever and one of his top 10. Thanks for the wiki fun facts!

  8. #33
    A reviewer :
    "I never cared for the CD versions at all; the deep, rich ‘Philly Soul’ mix that I loved on my vinyl copy was obliterated on the CD. Yes, it was brighter and crisper, but it left me cold and underwhelmed and continued to enjoy my vinyl JG. In my opinion, the 2012 master restores the sound quality to the original release. Vinnie’s drums now sound the way I remember, and the cymbals and other high end information are placed in proper perspective. Comparing the new release to my vinyl and a 24/96 vinyl rip, it sounds to me like they really captured the sound of the original."

    http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/pati...rage.html#2012

  9. #34
    If memory serves, FZ did the original albums as half-speed masters. It reduced the low end somewhat but it gave the top end a crystal clarity, which is what most people really seem to like about it. It wasn't quite as snappy-sizzly as Aja, and the drum sound had more meat than the dry, covered-with-a-towel sound that most drummers and producers got then (even Terry Bozzio to some extent). Probably 80% of the reason I love that recording so much is the drum sound. Damn, now I have to listen to it and see if it really sounds the way it does in my head *lol*

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Some wiki facts on Joe's View Post

    The album concludes with a long guitar instrumental, "Watermelon in Easter Hay",
    Not the last song. That would be " Little Green Rosetta."

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    As far as big FZ projects go, I'll rank this behind Lather, Uncle Meat and 200 Motels (I guess those are all big projects, right?). It is not as good as some other Zappa stuff that you don't own, JIF. Nothing wrong with grabbing this next, but I'd go after some other stuff first.
    Uncle Meat has no preference to J's G. 200 Motels is probably my favorite Zappa, along with Studio Tan...

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Is Sy Borg a FZ character?
    some lyrics from the songs:
    A tiny chrome-plated machine.That looks like a magical pig
    With marital aids stuck all over it.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Some wiki facts on Joe's

    For his performance on Joe's Garage, Vinnie Colaiuta was named "the most technically advanced drummer ever" by Modern Drummer, which ranked the album as one of the top 25 greatest drumming performances of all time

    The album concludes with a long guitar instrumental, "Watermelon in Easter Hay", the only guitar solo recorded for the album; every other guitar solo on the album was xenochronous—overdubbed from older live recordings. In their review of the album, Down Beat magazine criticized the song but subsequent reviewers have championed the song as Zappa's masterpiece. Lowe called it the "crowning achievement of the album" and "one of the most gorgeous pieces of music ever produced Zappa told Neil Slaven that he thought it was "the best song on the album". After Zappa died, "Watermelon in Easter Hay" became known as one of his signature songs, and his son, Dweezil Zappa, later referred to it as "the best solo Zappa ever played".

    Joe's Garage was the final album Zappa recorded at a commercial studio.Zappa's own studio, the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen, built as an addition to Zappa's home, and completed in late 1979, was used to record and mix all of his subsequent releases.
    I wouldn't quote Wikipedia on this site. You might get laughed at.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogibear View Post
    some lyrics from the songs:
    A tiny chrome-plated machine.That looks like a magical pig
    With marital aids stuck all over it.
    That didn't exactly answer my question, unless you're trying to say that Sy Borg was an alien.

  15. #40
    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    I don't get the esteem in which "Watermelon in Easter Hay" seems to be held. IMO it's one of FZ's most boring instrumentals and it is unforgiveably sentimental.

    It can't hold a candle to "On the Bus" or "Outside Now" or even the solos over the loading zone announcements.

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    That didn't exactly answer my question, unless you're trying to say that Sy Borg was an alien.
    Sy Borg aka Cyborg. Robot sex machine of the future or maybe the present now. From what FZ described I always thought it looked like a giant dildo on wheels with the ability to speak,think and give/receive pleasure. When Sy shows up,I find another cd to play.

  17. #42
    Some extracts from the Mark Pinske interview regarding the sound of the Ryco remasters
    "As a matter of fact, Bob (Stone) kind of over compressed stuff, and when he redid some of the mastering, he kind of rushed a lot of it through in a hurry. Some of the CDs that got re-released didn't sound nearly as good as the original vinyls did. They were kind of like reprocessed and redone, and just didn't quite have the imaging I felt like some of them -

    Q: That brings up the question of how come Frank didn't stop it, or notice it? There was too much going on?
    Pinske: Quite honestly, it's a - that's kind of a tough call to make on that. He got pretty fatigued with all the studio work we did. His right ear was getting a little worse, for sure. He was starting to have trouble hearing high frequencies in his right ear. And Frank would pretty much let the engineer in charge kind of run with it. Bob was good. Everybody had their own kind of styles. But Bob was into a lot of over compression and stuff, and most people would notice it, but Frank sort of started letting it go, and almost in a way kind of liking it, just like another one of those phases. He'd just kind of redo stuff just to redo it, rather than because you needed to redo it. A lot of times, we would have a lot of albums, I'm sure you know, as well as you know most of the stuff, that some of the stuff we did was in fabulous shape, and there was no reason to rerecord or re-release some of these tunes at all. We would get into re-releasing some stuff, and it was almost like kicking a dead horse. There was no reason to do it. It was almost like we were doing it just to do it. I think that's where some of that came in. He'd get fatigued. Normally he was a lot pickier.

    Pinske: I'll tell you what, if you listen - you take the "Thing-Fish" lacquer, for instance, and put in on and listen to it, just the original - even one of the original pressings, and then you put on the CD, you almost have to take the CD and throw it in the trash, it just sounds lousy. It doesn't have any of the ambience of the stuff we did off the walls or anything. It was all crushed and over compressed. It's a shame. It's a darn shame. Because we used to do - you realize, we started doing a lot of mastering over at Sheffield, where we did what they called "groove sculpturing." And some of those lacquers sounded immaculate. Absolutely immaculate. I couldn't understand why, when they redid - and of course, we would do, with John Matousek, when I started getting into doing all the really good quality albums, we did a lot of EQ'ing, and a lot of work in the room itself when we actually cut the lacquers. So none of that stuff would have been on the original 2-track. [End of tape.]
    Last edited by Udi Koomran; 12-26-2012 at 05:35 AM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreb View Post
    I don't get the esteem in which "Watermelon in Easter Hay" seems to be held.
    Neither can I - its nice, but . . .

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Some extracts from the Mark Pinske interview regarding the sound of the Ryco remasters
    "As a matter of fact, Bob (Stone) kind of over compressed stuff, and when he redid some of the mastering, he kind of rushed a lot of it through in a hurry. Some of the CDs that got re-released didn't sound nearly as good as the original vinyls did. They were kind of like reprocessed and redone, and just didn't quite have the imaging I felt like some of them -

    Q: That brings up the question of how come Frank didn't stop it, or notice it? There was too much going on?
    Pinske: Quite honestly, it's a - that's kind of a tough call to make on that. He got pretty fatigued with all the studio work we did. His right ear was getting a little worse, for sure. He was starting to have trouble hearing high frequencies in his right ear. And Frank would pretty much let the engineer in charge kind of run with it. Bob was good. Everybody had their own kind of styles. But Bob was into a lot of over compression and stuff, and most people would notice it, but Frank sort of started letting it go, and almost in a way kind of liking it, just like another one of those phases. He'd just kind of redo stuff just to redo it, rather than because you needed to redo it. A lot of times, we would have a lot of albums, I'm sure you know, as well as you know most of the stuff, that some of the stuff we did was in fabulous shape, and there was no reason to rerecord or re-release some of these tunes at all. We would get into re-releasing some stuff, and it was almost like kicking a dead horse. There was no reason to do it. It was almost like we were doing it just to do it. I think that's where some of that came in. He'd get fatigued. Normally he was a lot pickier.

    Pinske: I'll tell you what, if you listen - you take the "Thing-Fish" lacquer, for instance, and put in on and listen to it, just the original - even one of the original pressings, and then you put on the CD, you almost have to take the CD and throw it in the trash, it just sounds lousy. It doesn't have any of the ambience of the stuff we did off the walls or anything. It was all crushed and over compressed. It's a shame. It's a darn shame. Because we used to do - you realize, we started doing a lot of mastering over at Sheffield, where we did what they called "groove sculpturing." And some of those lacquers sounded immaculate. Absolutely immaculate. I couldn't understand why, when they redid - and of course, we would do, with John Matousek, when I started getting into doing all the really good quality albums, we did a lot of EQ'ing, and a lot of work in the room itself when we actually cut the lacquers. So none of that stuff would have been on the original 2-track. [End of tape.]
    Thing-Fish: WOW! For me this is the most unlistenable album he ever did. I had the lps and listened once and the Amos and Andy/Steppin' and Fetchit schtick got unbearable after about 2 min. I couldn't wait to dump it. If I never hear that music again it won't be too soon.

  20. #45
    guilty as charged I used to love Thing Fish so go figure one man's wine the other man's poison ...

    Dunno any Zappa album is good for me but I have not listened to the 80's albums for a long time - One of the only regrets was that I was foolish enough to lured into trading my entire Zappa vinyl collection for those horrid Ryco's

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Some extracts from the Mark Pinske interview regarding the sound of the Ryco remasters
    [End of tape.]
    So the new masters fix those mistakes? I've been thinking about picking up the new version of Joe's Garage.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  22. #47
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I'd love to have a version of Joe's Garage without the narration. I like the music a lot, but IMO the narration is as painful to listen to multiple times as some of the fantasy narrations that plague some prog and prog metal albums.

  23. #48
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    I can totally understand why Frank split this into 2 albums. The first one (Act I) was killer, except for the very last song. That gave you a taste of the dreck on the second album (Act II and III), except for Watermelon in Easter Hay.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    I can totally understand why Frank split this into 2 albums. The first one (Act I) was killer, except for the very last song. That gave you a taste of the dreck on the second album (Act II and III), except for Watermelon in Easter Hay.
    BINGO!

  25. #50
    Some random comments to some of the recent posts.

    Watermelon - one of the few Zappa guitar solos where he goes strictly for feel. Its a moving solo but not necessarily a particularly great one.

    JG acts 2 and 3 have a few great pieces, namely Packard Goose and Outside Now. I can't imagine how any Zappa fan would dislike Packard Goose.

    Thing Fish - hate it. Hated it from the first listen. Gave it a few tries over the years. Still hate it.

    Finally, from JKL 2000, great idea to have JG without narration. I could definitely live without it too.

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