Lesser known Canadian prog

[Scrotum Scissor]

Does etCetera, the Gentle Giant-influenced group count?

Already mentioned at the top of this page.

GGiant influenced several Quebecois bands (Maneige, Pollen, Opus-5, L'Engoulevent etc.), and even a couple of the Ottawa groups, like True Myth and Terraced Garden.

[TheH]

Jelly Fiche (I love this very melodic track)



The Box are actually very well known in Canada as they had some hits. There last Album is fullblown Prog and very good.

[Trane]

Not sure this is worth the hunt... must be pretty rare too.

Here you go, Hugues: http://www.discogs.com/Sylvette-Alla...elease/2841434

I always referred to it as just De L'Onde a L'Infini, but here it is credited to the performers, which is probably more correct. As you can see, this is just piano and ondes martenot (weird early electronic instrument), so definitely not for everyone, but I thought it's a brilliant piece of chamber music.

[boilk]

.... does anyone here remember Zon?

Yes, I remember having that album, and thinking it was pretty cool. Especially that first song. I also got the follow up, with Back Down to Earth on it. Then, I don't know what happened....

neil

[moecurlythanu]

First Symphonic Slam album is decent, if not exactly great overall.

Btw, the 2nd, 'Timo Laine SS II' is dreadful.

True Myth were OK.

The first is. The 2nd is AOR.

Those two 2nd efforts wouldn't cost anyone much, but they'd still regret buying them.

[smcfee]

I remepmber proposing this a few times to PQ, and they told me it was in the works, but apparently nothing's come out of it, sadly.

It seems that once PQ managed to re-issue the two Sloche albums, much of their motivations seemed to wane; a bit as if they'd reached the ultimate goal (I'm not sure they(ve released 5 albums since then)

Despite having tons of 70's prog gems from La Belle Province still awaiting, I mean, outside the latert Langlois release, their latest reissue dates from a few years (3?) back (Dervieux and Voisins). Sorry Stephen (and Sean), this is no attack, but your very fine label had done such a fantastic job so far, that the unfinished job is a bit disappointing.

We got the Michel Madore masters the same day as the Contraction archive, but they were not usable. Splices everywhere and oxidized. We probably could have gotten Michel's blessing for a needle-drop, as we were in contact with him and he seemed amenable. I can imagine how well that might have sold, when the entire album is available from Youtube upthread.

Exactly five releases post-Sloche (all post-me too); Vos Voisins, new ExCubus, Offenbach Tabarnac, Dervieux, and Jerome's Luna Suite.

For me, I did enough. Seven music festivals and thirty-seven releases over 11 years, on a volunteer basis, is more than anyone is entitled to. These sorts of "public good" activities need to be balanced with doing things that are actually good for me, so that's been my more recent focus.

If you want to know why we got as many things out as we did, thank the people who carried them, especially Steve Feigenbaum and Greg Walker in the US, Nobuhisa in Japan, and Johan from Clear Spot in Europe, and thank DEP for being our Canadian distributor and manufacturer. And most of all thank Stephen for starting it, and his determination and willingness to spend his personal time on this project. I think most people don't realize how personally successful Stephen has been and how he had no reason to do any of this except that he loves the music and enjoyed the challenge. I am fortunate to have worked with someone of his caliber for close to a decade.

If you want to know what you should be disappointed about that explains that there weren't more releases, that would be the sales figures. Without getting into specific numbers, think of the releases being split into 'A' titles and 'B' titles. When we started, a 'B' title could break even, and an 'A' title made enough money to fund the next series of releases. The first 8 releases came out in 2004 and 2005, mostly one at a time. Each early release was providing the cash flow to make the next ones possible, and the successful ones were building our future capacity. This allowed us to start doing 3 at a time in 2006.

As time went on, the 'B' titles started to lose money, but the 'A' titles could still be profitable enough so that if you combined releases in the right way, the initial sales would keep us liquid and allow us to keep a regular schedule. By the last few releases of my participation, some should-have-been 'A' titles were barely breaking even, and the 'B' titles were guaranteed money losers that we were doing purely to further the "mission".

As sales dropped, we had to be more careful about what projects we could take on, or how we timed things. When we finally opened the doors for EMI, Sony, and Polydor (at separate points in time), we had windows where we could have gotten more or less what we wanted from each of them (in the context of 'Quebec prog we'd never actually reissue ourselves', of course <g>). We didn't have a business case to do more than we did because of the sales. If you think you are disappointed, I know what we actually could have done. If our releases had sold double of what they did, we still would not have been in "1990s peak reissue period" territory, but we could have gotten a hell of a lot more done. It's not about motivation. This is a decision that was made by the market. I don't think this would have influenced my own timetable, but the label itself would have had more releases.

[smcfee]

I had an album WAY back, late 70's from a Montreal(?) group called Avalon and it was called "Voice Of Life" which I sold in the 80's. Musically it was good progressive with a few choral moments and elements of Queen, Styx and Kansas for style. Kinda would like to hear it again but haven't seen it on LP or CD since. Does anybody remember this? The cover painting was of a rider on a horse riding through a dark night/spacey sky.

There were two covers, the one you are talking about and the much less cool one I have . They were actually an Ottawa group from what I've heard.

[smcfee]

and even a couple of the Ottawa groups, like True Myth and Terraced Garden.

I believe True Myth was from Toronto and Terraced Garden was Ontario, but neither Ottawa nor Toronto.

[smcfee]

You guys have done a pretty thorough job. I'd also mention Ungava from Quebec, Another Roadside Attraction from Ontario, and Lightdreams from BC. Melodic Energy Commission had the Hawkwind link but were weirder and better. Mara and Lagagnamo from Quebec City; the former had Nana Vasconcelos on their album. W.D. Fisher is pretty interesting too . Early Dionysos is pretty interesting, and then you have the Intersystems/Syrinx stuff from John Mills-Cockell, Infonie, Peloquin Sauvageau... Mock Duck from BC...

[at least 100 dead]

NoMeansNo - Canada's most cuddly power trio!

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

NoMeansNo - Canada's most cuddly power trio!

well then, if we are going there, let's include one of my favorite Hardcore Punk bands D.O.A.

[at least 100 dead]

well then, if we are going there, let's include one of my favorite Hardcore Punk bands D.O.A.

Now you're talking! "Full Metal Jackoff" w/ Jello is epic...

[Scrotum Scissor]

I believe True Myth was from Toronto and Terraced Garden was Ontario, but neither Ottawa nor Toronto.

Yes, I was wrong in what I wrote; I actually imagined BOTH to be from Ontario.

As for the ProgQuebec merit, I think I'm not alone in stating that for somewhat more "advanced" progressive rock listeners (and collectors/completists alike), your release catalog is about next to none as regards overall value in historical material from a specific region. I know for a fact that there were many folks awaiting the titles you brought forth, and the job itself - technically, esthetically and in terms of distribution etc. - was exemplary. I keep all those reissues stacked together and tend to listen to several of them in a binge, and I always keep thinking how lucky we were to have someone make them available for us at all.

[Trane]

Sean, thanks a million for your honest and thorough answer, really!!

We got the Michel Madore masters the same day as the Contraction archive, but they were not usable. Splices everywhere and oxidized. We probably could have gotten Michel's blessing for a needle-drop, as we were in contact with him and he seemed amenable. I can imagine how well that might have sold, when the entire album is available from Youtube upthread.

Exactly five releases post-Sloche (all post-me too); Vos Voisins, new ExCubus, Offenbach Tabarnac, Dervieux, and Jerome's Luna Suite.

Madore's Komuzo's uploading on YT dates from august 2013... the only way to catch that album on the web before that was through some pirate MySpace pages

BTW, I still have to order that Luna Suite . I simply forgot its existence

For me, I did enough. Seven music festivals and thirty-seven releases over 11 years, on a volunteer basis, is more than anyone is entitled to. These sorts of "public good" activities need to be balanced with doing things that are actually good for me, so that's been my more recent focus.

If you want to know why we got as many things out as we did, thank the people who carried them, especially Steve Feigenbaum and Greg Walker in the US, Nobuhisa in Japan, and Johan from Clear Spot in Europe, and thank DEP for being our Canadian distributor and manufacturer. And most of all thank Stephen for starting it, and his determination and willingness to spend his personal time on this project. I think most people don't realize how personally successful Stephen has been and how he had no reason to do any of this except that he loves the music and enjoyed the challenge. I am fortunate to have worked with someone of his caliber for close to a decade.

If you want to know what you should be disappointed about that explains that there weren't more releases, that would be the sales figures. Without getting into specific numbers, think of the releases being split into 'A' titles and 'B' titles. When we started, a 'B' title could break even, and an 'A' title made enough money to fund the next series of releases. The first 8 releases came out in 2004 and 2005, mostly one at a time. Each early release was providing the cash flow to make the next ones possible, and the successful ones were building our future capacity. This allowed us to start doing 3 at a time in 2006.

As time went on, the 'B' titles started to lose money, but the 'A' titles could still be profitable enough so that if you combined releases in the right way, the initial sales would keep us liquid and allow us to keep a regular schedule. By the last few releases of my participation, some should-have-been 'A' titles were barely breaking even, and the 'B' titles were guaranteed money losers that we were doing purely to further the "mission".

As sales dropped, we had to be more careful about what projects we could take on, or how we timed things. When we finally opened the doors for EMI, Sony, and Polydor (at separate points in time), we had windows where we could have gotten more or less what we wanted from each of them (in the context of 'Quebec prog we'd never actually reissue ourselves', of course <g>). We didn't have a business case to do more than we did because of the sales. If you think you are disappointed, I know what we actually could have done. If our releases had sold double of what they did, we still would not have been in "1990s peak reissue period" territory, but we could have gotten a hell of a lot more done. It's not about motivation. This is a decision that was made by the market. I don't think this would have influenced my own timetable, but the label itself would have had more releases.

what's amazing is that you (PQ) appear not to have been recipient of much cultural subsidies, in a province that I would've expected to be more voluntary (compared to other canadian provinces) in saving its cultural heritage. If not in terms of actual financial help (I know La Belle Province is never far away from bankrupcy because of its more European-like social security), at least in terms of visibility and public awareness that these albums were coming out in the later 00's. I mean, where there not cultural magazines (radio or TV or written press) where PQ would've been invited to talk of its projects and activities??

[Kanukisbrave]

This thread and these notes about progquebec, has got me motivated on things I should have bought but didn't. Next payday I'll be ordering from progquebec... there are just so many gems in their catalogue

[spacefreak]

Melodic Energy Commission had the Hawkwind link but were weirder and better.

It may seem strange but they're still around. I received a CD from Mr. Xaliman a few years ago...

[Scrotum Scissor]

Were the Octobre albums ever reissued on CD individually, or was it just that 2CD collection - anyone know?

And how about the Fiori-Seguin album?

[mozo-pg]

I had an album WAY back, late 70's from a Montreal(?) group called Avalon and it was called "Voice Of Life" which I sold

Avalon played at my high school in Ottawa in grade nine.

[Progbear]

- Ptarmigan, s/t. More acid folk, but with a clear prog touch to the arrangements. I think it's a very nice album, but have seen others going as far as to call it an overlooked classic.

I wouldn’t go that far. It’s nice acoustic folk from B.C., nothing more.

Here you go, Hugues: http://www.discogs.com/Sylvette-Alla...elease/2841434

I always referred to it as just De L'Onde a L'Infini, but here it is credited to the performers, which is probably more correct. As you can see, this is just piano and ondes martenot (weird early electronic instrument), so definitely not for everyone, but I thought it's a brilliant piece of chamber music.

Looks like this was produced in Canada (Francis Dompierre, who released a proggy-ish album with a lot of Montréal scenesters, including Et Cetera’s Marie Bernard Pagé), though the ondist, Sylvette Allart, is French. She played with Belgian superstar Jacques Brel back in the day. She had a really weird résumé, as she also played on a few tracks on Stolen From Time by the Norwegian band Popol Ace!

Were the Octobre albums ever reissued on CD individually, or was it just that 2CD collection - anyone know?

L’autoroute des rêves got released as a dedicated CD (with alternate cover art) but other than that, the 2CD anthology is all the Octobre that has been reissued on CD.

And how about the Fiori-Seguin album?

I have this on CD. Released by Sony Canada.

[smcfee]

Thanks guys. I was being tongue-in-cheek about the Komuso album but also adding context; you can get both Madore albums for $20 at Discogs (with shipping it's less of a deal), so ultimately it's not so bad. Also, as technology improves, it may be possible for SOMEONE to restore those masters, which Stephen or our audio engineer may still have. But let's suppose that is a four-figure process to attempt, and not guaranteed to work, and it's hard to justify.

We did get some funding early on from an organization funded through Heritage Canada called the AV Trust, and it was very helpful. It was your standard "grant application" style program, and we applied each year for the first thing we would do that year. The mandate of the program was to preserve cultural audio-visual material; basically tailor made for us since we were restoring and preserving music in digital form with a focus on Quebec. Once the Conservatives got into power they shut that program down.

Releases that had support from the AV Trust have Heritage Canada and AV Trust logos on the back, but to save you time, they were: VEBB, Contraction x 2, Maneige "Ni vent" / "Libre Service", and Lasting Weep x 2.

[simon moon]

Not sure how known it is, but the first Hamdryad release, "Conservation of Mass" is pretty top quality stuff.

Unfairly compared to Yes, simply because their vocalist sings in the same range as Jon-Jon B. David (or whoever Yes's vocalist is currently), but that's really where the similarities end.

This video does not have the original vocalist. He sings lower than the original vocalist.

[Levgan]

I wouldn’t go that far. It’s nice acoustic folk from B.C., nothing more.

That kinda sums up my feelings as well. But it seems to resonate particularly well with the rural folk/psych crowd, which is the genre I'm only tangentially interested in.

Looks like this was produced in Canada (Francis Dompierre, who released a proggy-ish album with a lot of Montréal scenesters, including Et Cetera’s Marie Bernard Pagé), though the ondist, Sylvette Allart, is French. She played with Belgian superstar Jacques Brel back in the day. She had a really weird résumé, as she also played on a few tracks on Stolen From Time by the Norwegian band Popol Ace!

Wow, a very weird background indeed. If anyone told me there was a direct link between Jacques Brel and Popol Ace, I'd never have believed it! That's like two totally different epochs in music. As for Francois Dompierre, yeah his album was not half bad. A double LP IIRC with just three sides worth of music, and the fourth one left blank.

Once the Conservatives got into power they shut that program down.

I have no idea about politics in Quebec at all, but I find this strange on a purely literal level - shouldn't it be the foremost aim of people calling themselves conservatives to preserve legacy of the past?

[Scrotum Scissor]

Not sure how known it is, but the first Hamdryad release, "Conservation of Mass" is pretty top quality stuff.

Unfairly compared to Yes,

I kinda like that album, although there are some plain irritating, repetitive parts where that voice doesn't work very well at all. But their merger of prog metal sensibilities and a sort of retro-symph antic actually had a lot going for it - at least as an idea. A band who nearly perfected this vision were the Chilean quintet Matraz.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

I have no idea about politics in Quebec at all, but I find this strange on a purely literal level - shouldn't it be the foremost aim of people calling themselves conservatives to preserve legacy of the past?

heh... you have a point there Lev
I don't do politics either cause its really all about telling lies to get in office, but it seems the "conservatives" just wanna conserve their La-Z-Boy and their yachts and that takes bombs and a military machine which leaves little left for the arts

of course there's equal criticism to be levied against the other side of liars as well

[Trane]

I have no idea about politics in Quebec at all, but I find this strange on a purely literal level - shouldn't it be the foremost aim of people calling themselves conservatives to preserve legacy of the past?

I'm pretty sure that Sean spoke of the Conservative at the national level, not at the provincial level.
AFAIK, the Conservatives were never close to anything in the province of Quebec, even during the time when the Conservative Canadian Prime Minister was from Quebec (Brian Mulroney - during the late 80's)
On the national level, Quebec often massively voted Liberal (Jean Chrétien in the 90's, Pierre Trudeau in the 70's).
Generally, the conservatives in Canada get much of their support/votes from the Prairie States and Ontario (Canada's third province BC, being often more libertarian than liberal).
It's not false to say that the Conservative Party is not really French/Quebec friendly - especially with the latest prime minister - he's from Alberta (roughly that's the Texas of Canada), and from what I gather, he's quite resentful of Eastern Canada in general ***.
Alberta was never known for being a cultural hotbed (except for agriculture) anyway.

But my guess is that the Canadian heritage AV Trust was a national thing, not a provincial level institution


*** - the previous Albertan PM was Joe Clark who stayed 9 months in power in the early 80's before being ousted, because of the huge blunders he made. He almost made Canada the most-hated country in the Muslim World by pledging to move Canada's embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem... In the fear of contracting Fatwah, Canada's gv't quickly folded and went to elections again (if memory serves). Albertans are mostly concerned about oil and Cattle. Clarke's obsession about Petro Canada is just about the only thing he seemed to be concerned about as well.

heh... you have a point there Lev
I don't do politics either cause its really all about telling lies to get in office, but it seems the "conservatives" just wanna conserve their La-Z-Boy and their yachts and that takes bombs and a military machine which leaves little left for the arts

of course there's equal criticism to be levied against the other side of liars as well

Well, convervatism means conserving your post once you get in there.



If conservatives can be friendly towards arts, it's more/either in the really old-folks traditions or the stuffy and dusty high-cultural (classical music & stuff)... but not "that deviant crap" dating from the 70's.

But this AV trust (even at the national level) would probably not make this kind of distinction and that's why they would've funded ProgQuebec


==============


Sean, did you ever get the feeling that Quebec medias maybe slightly shunned your preservation actions because you and Stephen were "anglophones" (t least I believe you both are) and they (Québécois medias) felt awkward (maybe even a bit ashamed) that it would not be francophones taking care of that stuff?