I suppose you have a point there, but wouldn't someone have noticed that and said, "Hey, we gotta change out the mic on Richard's amp" or something?Originally Posted by klothos
I suppose you have a point there, but wouldn't someone have noticed that and said, "Hey, we gotta change out the mic on Richard's amp" or something?
If its only one guy that constitutes the Sound Company, there would certainly be an indicator on his board (or iPad) saying he isnt getting a proper level and this is telling me that it could be anything in the signal chain from the channel on the board itself (and its associated physical inputs) all the way to the mic (including the mic cord).....and even if its more than one guy, Id still have to ask myself "What do I do?"...If it was me, Im not going to risk switching channels or going onstage and interrupting what sounds like an intimate performance with my, or an assistant's, Plumber-crack ass onstage trying to switch out the mic knowing good and well it could be the cord or a number of other unknowns in the signal chain...Id probably opt to let it ride and take the scolding later
Well, apart from the fact that the show I'm talking about was about 15 years ago, and hence predated the iPad era, I do see the point that there could be any number of variables causing the guitar to not be audible, and thus could be time consuming during the show. I just think it stinks that the attitude is basically, "Who cares if the audience spent their hard earned money and came out to the club for the show, we don't feel like dealing with the problem". (shrug) Doesn't sound very professional to me.If its only one guy that constitutes the Sound Company, there would certainly be an indicator on his board (or iPad) saying he isnt getting a proper level and this is telling me that it could be anything in the signal chain from the channel on the board itself (and its associated physical inputs) all the way to the mic (including the mic cord).....and even if its more than one guy, Id still have to ask myself "What do I do?"...If it was me, Im not going to risk switching channels or going onstage and interrupting what sounds like an intimate performance with my, or an assistant's, Plumber-crack ass onstage trying to switch out the mic knowing good and well it could be the cord or a number of other unknowns in the signal chain...Id probably opt to let it ride and take the scolding later
I'll take the "plumber's ass crack" if it means at least most of the show I get to hear the music properly, especially when the instrument I can't hear is the main reason I'm at the damn concert in the first place.
Let me ask you this: If you were doing sound for Eric Johnson or Steve Vai, and the guitar was inaudible, what would you do?
This isnt the attitude at all --- the attitude is "How do I make the best of a bad situation?" Leaving it alone without interrupting or detracting from a performance with my stage presence wouldnt be an option. The only way Id do it if I knew EXACTLY what the problem is -- quickly run onstage, switch out the offending piece - and be offstage within seconds
It just means what I said above: I wouldnt want to interrupt a stage performance with myself because I dont want to detract attention while I try to fix an unknown
In this case (and Ive seen this done) I would have redundancies. If I am dealing with a feature virtuoso guitarist that uses cabinet mics (most do, although there is a slew of new generation players that love their pods and virtual toyz), I would have multiple mics on the cab in duplicate channels, with the backups muted, just for that reason....If there is a problem with the primary cabinet mic: Simply Unmute one of the backup channels and Mute the primary and worry about it later - the show goes on
I recall reading several years ago about a drunk sound/lighting person throwing stuff at Starcastle at a ROSfest. The cops grabbed him and hauled him to the brig.
Plus, you can usually at least wait until the end of the song and then figure out what's wrong- unless it's a damn prog band and the song is 28 minutes long
Well, yeah, I wouldn't expect the sound guy to declare a training time out or whatever in the middle of a song to fix a problem. I'm just saying that after the first two songs, when something doesn't seem right, there should be some attempt to fix it, whereas in the case of the Richard Lloyd show that I was talking about, that didn't seem to happen.Plus, you can usually at least wait until the end of the song and then figure out what's wrong- unless it's a damn prog band and the song is 28 minutes long
Why don't do that with any band? Just because Richard Lloyd isn't a "virtuoso guitarist" he doesn't get extra mics on his amp, in case one of them fails?In this case (and Ive seen this done) I would have redundancies. If I am dealing with a feature virtuoso guitarist that uses cabinet mics (most do, although there is a slew of new generation players that love their pods and virtual toyz), I would have multiple mics on the cab in duplicate channels, with the backups muted, just for that reason....If there is a problem with the primary cabinet mic: Simply Unmute one of the backup channels and Mute the primary and worry about it later - the show goes on
Because Im a bass playerand I dont want to run sound
Most gigs don't have the resources to put a bunch of redundant channels on everything. Anyway, I've never done a gig ever where a mic actually failed. Cables, yes but that's rare.
More than once I've seen the sound man wearing headphones during the entire set. I understand that you need to block everything out to get the instruments balanced, but, how can anyone mix a show by totally disregarding the acoustics of the venue? It may sound good in those phones, but the rest of us can't hear it the way you're listening.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Who says they're listening to the show?
The headphones are generally just for previewing and soloing individual channels (What the hell is that buzz? Is it in the bass? I shall put on the headphones, solo it and see!) Any mixer who wears phones for more than a minute or so at a time should be forcibly removed from his post and replaced with extreme prejudice.
I have....Once, because the XLR connecting ring had come loose on the microphone so the cable couldn't seat in the mic properly and the other time because the mic diaphragm itself failed ...there may have been others but those issues are the ones I remember
Most times, suggestions to the sound man are simply opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of others in your area or in other parts of the venue. I was at a show that had great sound. During the set, drunk and/or obnoxious fools kept coming up to the sound man and were attempting to tell him what to change. Not only were they disruptive to the job he was doing, they all had different 'suggestions'. I walked around to all areas of the venue with members of their crew and everything sounded fine. A short time later, extra security was brought in to keep the front of house area clear.
Not to mentioin... regardless of the issue it's always your fault.
The second time I saw Pat Metheny there was a tech lying on the stage underneath Lyle Mays' keyboards trying to track down an issue for the first 15 or 20 minutes. Very distracting, but probably highly necessary.
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Wow, so I guess it's just my opinion that the guitar solos should be clearly audible in a live show, huh? I guess I've been approaching this going to concerts thing from the wrong angle. (shrug)
I realize that sometimes things happen that are uncontrollable, but I just think it stinks that you take an evening out of your life and spend whatever amount of one's hard earned money to go see a show, and then you can't hear the damn music properly, no matter where you position yourself in the room. Like I said, maybe I'm expecting too much when I go to a show. (shrug)
Not at all, I was not implying that in any way and - reading through the thread - I don't think anybody else was either: If you spend a lot of your hard-earned money on something than you should expect a quality product....No doubt
But your thread is titled "Incompetent Soundman" and your OP points an accusing finger at a live sound engineer's ineptness where all I am saying is that a Sound Engineer's incompetence isn't necessarily the reason -- or a fair accusation - for any given show's errant sound issue
Last edited by klothos; 03-27-2015 at 12:45 AM.
But... It usually is. We've all seen it happen.
Good musicians play. Mediocre musicians teach. Terrible musicians become soundmen.
Not only is that grossly inaccurate, but you probably just offended about a dozen or more members here. Musicians do whatever they have to do to put bread on the table and these days with live and studio work dwindling for 100 different reasons, they often have to reinvent their job descriptions and wear several hats. How good they are has nothing to do with it.
Consider the source.
You're wasting your time with this one.
Good musicians may also become soundmen (with varying results) but there's some truth to the notion that lousy musicians become sound men as a way to stay in the game. Some turn out to be good at it! They may not be able to play but they have good ears. Or not. I've encountered both. Back in the day half the sound guys on the road were the band's drug dealers. There was a story that Ted Templeman started out as The Doobie Brothers' cocaine dealer. Talk about the guy who put the doobie in the Doobies.
Sorry, I guess I should have finished the thought.
"Good musicians play. Mediocre musicians teach. Terrible musicians become soundmen... or CRITICS."
Better?
Not much. I know several GREAT musicians who teach. They play too, but they're supplementing their income. Some of them even enjoy it.Sorry, I guess I should have finished the thought.
"Good musicians play. Mediocre musicians teach. Terrible musicians become soundmen... or CRITICS."
Better?
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