VDGG - Godbluff

[at least 100 dead]

For those of you who missed it, here’s the Van der Graaf Generator feature from the Mojo special on prog (ca. August 2005). It also included a “40 Cosmic Rock Albums” list - oddly enough, VdGG only had one entry.

(If uploading this is somehow illegal, I’ll remove it.)
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[per anporth]

For me personally, I would put When She Comes in the VdGG top five (but I have an off-the-wall top five of tunes I enjoy the most from VdGG which would include Door from Vital, and Afterwards from the debut). I think the thing about tunes like Masks, When She Comes, and A Place To Survive is that they don't follow the "normal" VdGG pattern... which is to be completely un-normal. The World Record tunes follow a pretty standard song pattern, which is very un-VdGG-like (WR tunes = verse, chorus, verse, chorus, instrumental/solo break, verse, chorus, end). Hell, WSC and APTS even have choruses! Choruses, dammit, in a VdGG song! I quite like Masks and APTS but will acknowledge that they're not "special" VdGG tunes. WSC, though, is so damn catchy, and rocks so damn hard, that it's a bonafide VdGG classic in my eyes. And for a guy not known for writing choruses, with WSC Hammill came up with one bad-ass, uber catchy chorus. Love it and will never get tired of that song.

But, back on topic, yeah... Godbluff is the best album of all time ;-)

Ok - I'll buy what you say about When She Comes - I still think it's a bit "chuggy" rythmically - but even then, there are remarkable moments, like the Evan's driven propulsive passage around 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through (it's even better on the Maida Vale Sessions), which is almost "funky"!

I also agree with you about Door from Vital - the whole of the final side of that record is mind-boggling, raw, corruscating, brilliance - but Door offers a glorious vision of what the band could have gone on to become had they stayed together (I'd also suggest it's a significant pointer as to why Charles Dickie was an important part of that particular ensemble - linking across to a discussion from another thread).

Anyway - I'll ditto your sentiments about Godbluff - just a mindboggling, astonishing, achievement.

[at least 100 dead]

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EDIT: Err, some of the scans above are rather blurry, but if you open them in a new window and squint you can just about make out the print. Here’s another Mojo article.

[Bucka001]

When She Comes - there are remarkable moments, like the Evan's driven propulsive passage around 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through (it's even better on the Maida Vale Sessions), which is almost "funky"!

Guy and I were having a drum conversation years ago (he's a master/genius, I'm average/okay on a pedestrian level). We were talking about When She Comes and what he said (which goes to the section you're talking about, and also the chorus of the song) was so enlightening; it made perfect sense. Basically, he and Peter were totally into Neil Young and Crazy Horse around the time of WR. Apparently, the Crazy Horse drummer is a guy named Ralph Molina, who Guy really liked. Guy was inspired by that style of drumming and, in a *good* way, said that he wanted to come up with something completely "moronic" for When She Comes. And he did. If you were to take away all the music and just listen to the drums on the chorus and in that section you're talking about, it's almost silly, absurd drumming. *But it totally works* Brilliant, and I never would have looked at it that way in a million years, but that's why he's The Man.

Edit: Agree with you about both the BBC version of When She Comes (which I prefer to the WR version, great though it is) and the fourth side of Vital. My fave sid of that double album, and a peak/plateau within the whole history of the group, for whatever lineup.

[mx20]

Love Godbluff, love Still Life. I'm not a big fan of Vital, but I like World Record & really, really like Quiet Zone.

That 1975 live video was my intro to the band & it blew me away!

BTW, Guy really shines on the new Merlin Atmos version of A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers.

[Progatron]

I adore H, Least, and Pawn, but have never embraced the reformation ones nearly as much, although Pilgrims may be my favorite VDGG track

Surprised to read earlier in the thread that it came out of the Godbluff sessions

Yes, "Pilgrims" and "La Rossa" were both recorded during Godbluff but left off as it was felt they didn't suit the other material. I have tried playlists in the past where I slot those two in to the album and it was indeed an odd listen - odder than you might think.

What caught me is how many fat riffs there are. It's not particularly atonal or difficult in that sense, GG gets more far out in terms of tonality. It;s the sonic pallette that makes it crazy; the combo of fuzz sax and the vocals.

Haven't heard you comment on the keys. Banton was/is one-of-a-kind. Saw them live a few years back and I was amazed by him! So impressive... they all were, of course.

[trurl]

Yes, I like what he's doing a lot. In a weird way though the keys are the least unusual thing about the band though *lol*

[pmrviana]

Yes, I like what he's doing a lot. In a weird way though the keys are the least unusual thing about the band though *lol*

If you take into account that they don't have a dedicated bass player and Hugh Banton is actually playing most of the bass parts on organ pedals, I think that is pretty unusual for a rock band...

[grego]

IMHO, there's nothing equal to Still Life( the song) in Godbluff..The whole Still Life album I consider a masterpiece. Godbluff..is brilliant, but a bit rough. Scorched Earth is a bit naive compared to monumental La Rossa. Arrangements on Still Life are much better, than those on Godbluff. Strong points of Godbluff are Undercover Man & Arrow. Both fantastic songs.

[mogrooves]

In a weird way though the keys are the least unusual thing about the band though *lol*

Check out his solo on "Darkness" or his Mellotron on A Plague ("Kosmos Tour", iirc). One could go on and on re: Banton's "unusual"-ness.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Yes, "Pilgrims" and "La Rossa" were both recorded during Godbluff but left off as it was felt they didn't suit the other material. I have tried playlists in the past where I slot those two in to the album and it was indeed an odd listen - odder than you might think.

"Pilgrims" is one of my fave Hammill tunes - period. But it's essentially a very "straight" song, almost like a backlash to the material on Fool's Mate.

"Scorched Earth", "Arrow" and "Sleepwalkers" are three of the most powerful VdGG tracks altogether, continuing where "A Louse Is Not a Home" left off. And with "Childlike Faith", this bulk marked their most intimate stint with intricate, densely arranged avant-garde rock.

[JJ88]

'Gog'/'Magog' was Hammill's most 'out' excursion of that period- that 'Bromine Chambers' stuff is amongst the darkest, weirdest music of its time. But it also has guts rather than just coming from the 'head', which is why he's always connected with me.

[JJ88]

Check out his solo on "Darkness" or his Mellotron on A Plague ("Kosmos Tour", iirc). One could go on and on re: Banton's "unusual"-ness.

I love the bravado of just holding that long note on 'Darkness', and the organ tone there is fantastic. And the Mellotron solo on 'Plague' is amazing but terrifying!

[Scrotum Scissor]

'Gog'/'Magog' was Hammill's most 'out' excursion of that period- that 'Bromine Chambers' stuff is amongst the darkest, weirdest music of its time.

That's Hammill's absolute peak as "chief idiosyncrate" of the 70s UK symphonic rock movement, I think. Perhaps ironically - considering the overall difficulty of the song - this is also where his 'proto-punk' alibi truly manifests itself as a buildup to Nadir.

[trurl]

I put Godbluff in the car tonight and my daughter said, "Is that Jack Skellington?" I said, "No..." She said, "Yeah, I think it is!" She meant it as a compliment.

[Progatron]

I put Godbluff in the car tonight and my daughter said, "Is that Jack Skellington?" I said, "No..." She said, "Yeah, I think it is!" She meant it as a compliment.

I don't know who that is, but did you check out Pawn Hearts yet? Or are you giving the Godbluff obsession the time it needs?

[trurl]

From Nightmare Before Christmas.

No, I haven't had time for Pawn Hearts yet. Actually thinking maybe I should go for Still Life first!

[Bytor]

I love the bravado of just holding that long note on 'Darkness', and the organ tone there is fantastic. And the Mellotron solo on 'Plague' is amazing but terrifying!

Wow, I've been listening to Plague for 20 years and never noticed a mellotron solo . Where exactly??? God I feel dumb now

[mogrooves]

a mellotron solo. Where exactly???

@16:35 - 19:15. The frail instrument wasn't intended for such abuse!

[Digital_Man]

I think "arrow" is the weakest link but it's still a great album.

[Trane]

I think "arrow" is the weakest link but it's still a great album.

you and I will never agree on anything

Arrow is the most sublime Graaf track in the 70's

[at least 100 dead]

^ Arrow the most sublime? No, that would be Sleepwalkers. Or Scorched Earth. Or Man-Erg. Or La Rossa. Or Pilgrims.

[Bucka001]

Check out his solo on "Darkness" or his Mellotron on A Plague ("Kosmos Tour", iirc). One could go on and on re: Banton's "unusual"-ness.

Seeing Hugh Banton up close at some of the VdGG concerts I've been at has been a jaw-dropping experience. To see the guy's fingers speedily flying all over the keys, *while* his feet are belting out these kickass bass lines on the pedals, is truly amazing. I also love his use of unexpected "shock" chords (not so much in evidence on Godbluff but on some of the earlier albums and definitely when they played live back in the day). Added to that is the fact that his live gear sounded like no other organs out there as he basically ripped out the guts on a lot of those organs and put his own stuff in there, giving his organs a totally unique sound (definitely the '72 and '76 self-built organs). Very cool!!
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[JJ88]

'Killer' is another one with a, well, killer organ solo- about as heavy a tone as you could imagine.

[Bytor]

@16:35 - 19:15. The frail instrument wasn't intended for such abuse!

Duh, you're right