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Thread: Ian Anderson addresses fan criticism of band member choices

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jondon4 View Post
    Part of the confusion is that there are different types of royalties. Under U.S. copyright law, when a Jethro Tull album is sold the musicians get royalties for their performance as well as the composers. When someone else performs a Jethro Tull song, only the composer(s) gets a royalty. It's unlikely Ian could legally change copyright law although UK performance rights may differ from the U.S. But, over the years, the constantly changing line-up under Ian's management would suggest that the entity known as Jethro Tull is a business in which he was the sole owner, thus meaning the others were paid employees hired for specific tours and album recordings. Yes did the same thing as its been reported that Squire owned the Yes name, although the evolution of LLC's has made it easier for a group to form a business for a limited time before dissolution. If Martin had been part owner I find it hard to believe the company was dissolved without his knowing. More likely he was a paid employee like all the other (26)? members had been over the years but out of friendship and undeniable talent was retained until Ian made the decision to begin performing under his own moniker. I also understand his desire to stop playing for the rowdy drunks that show up at Jethro Tull concerts. He may still enjoy playing the songs. My final conclusion is that Ian is telling the truth and people are just looking for drama.
    Ex-members of Tull do, apparently, get songwriting royalties for the songs. I read an interview with Ian where he talked about working out the royalties for ex members who had written riffs or passages of songs.

  2. #77
    Ian had a commentary post a few years back about UK copyrights where he mentioned that some former members of the band lived off of their royalties.

  3. #78
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    You know, I got no problem with the last two Ian albums: TaaB2 and Homo Erraticus. They might not grip me as emotionally as the 70s stuff but they are still respectable pieces of work and do nothing to diminish Ian in my eyes.
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  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    You know, I got no problem with the last two Ian albums: TaaB2 and Homo Erraticus. They might not grip me as emotionally as the 70s stuff but they are still respectable pieces of work and do nothing to diminish Ian in my eyes.
    This.
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  5. #80
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    You know, I got no problem with the last two Ian albums: TaaB2 and Homo Erraticus. They might not grip me as emotionally as the 70s stuff but they are still respectable pieces of work and do nothing to diminish Ian in my eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by wilcox660 View Post
    This.
    Yeah, I agree here as well. There are several strong tracks that I enjoy between those albums.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Yeah, I agree here as well. There are several strong tracks that I enjoy between those albums.
    Same here. Both were better than I expected going in. Particularly TaaB2 as I thought that would not be much - I had higher expectations after that.

  7. #82
    Member Jondon4's Avatar
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    That's certainly possible, but if so their name(s) would join his as legal composers, though anytime I see the attribution the songs always say "Written by Ian Anderson." He himself has bragged that he has been the sole composer of Jethro Tull music over the years. Other artists have followed the Beatles, Genesis and Yes' lead. The Beatles listed most everything as "Lennon/McCartney," although many of their most famous songs were exclusively written by one or the other. Genesis usually attributed the writing to the whole group (Written my Genesis), whereas Yes simply listed everyone as contributors (Anderson, Squire, White and ((add your favorite name)), which effectively resolves any legal disputes as to who wrote what. Most likely the reports of Tull bandmates' royalties refers to their performances and not the composition but I suppose Ian could have arranged something that provided income without legal recognition.

  8. #83
    It's well known that Barre wrote things like the instrumental section of Minstrel in the Gallery. Publishing can be set up so that there can be people credited as writers for royalty purposes that are not publicly credited as songwriters. It's very common

  9. #84
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    It's well known that Barre wrote things like the instrumental section of Minstrel in the Gallery.
    That's one of the very few songs he did get a co-writing credit on...although Anderson was careful to credit him only on the album version, not the single edit which didn't include that section!

  10. #85
    A few of the Tull albums have credits for "additional material" to Barre and other members.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Outrageous? I don't think so. I mean it sucks for Barre to more or less get dumped, but Ian (whether because he had to or because he wanted to - we don't know) created a situation where the name is used by neither, but both can play all of the Tull songs that they want in their own shows.

    As far as the new IA albums... yeah, I don't think that they're very good at all, but I like the fact that they exist. I like that there is one of the old classic rockers out there making new albums and trying to make his career about his new stuff as much or even more than the old stuff. The old stuff had its day and those days are gone. Now, it's certainly true that IA has been linking his new stuff quite strongly with the past work of Tull, so it's not like his new material represents an actual break from the past, but neither is he an overt nostalgia act the way that so many other of the older bands have become.

    It certainly puzzles me Thick as a Brick II was the first thing he did *after* dissolving Tull, but it just confirms to me that there is probably more to the Anderson/Barre split than has yet been reported.
    Huh? Could not Ian have done the decent thing and credited Barre as a guest player on his solo albums. Colin Blunstone did the same after the Zombies broke up in the 60's and used Rod Argent as both a player and/or producer on his 2nd and 3rd solo albums. No ego nonsense there. Sorry, but Anderson is an ass, IMHO.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by eporter66 View Post
    I must admit, that it was hard for me to accept that Martin was no longer part of the band. It did seem like a bitter split initially, and from what I've read (that needs to be said, because who knows what the real truth is), I dont think Ian handled it particularly well. Martin deserved better. It does seem that Ian understands the fan perspective from his statement above, we all have a favorite "period", or our favorite player at some point in the bands history. I am thankful that Ian is still creating, and touring, we are lucky that he is this active at this stage in his career. Tull's music has been an important part of my life, and I still enjoy listening to the music. So, rock on Ian, Martin, and all those who have delivered this great music of these many years!
    I interviewed Martin Barre a few days ago. Suffice to say he has moved on but considers the demise of Jethro Tull a huge opportunity lost, especially on the concert stage.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progression/John View Post
    I interviewed Martin Barre a few days ago. Suffice to say he has moved on but considers the demise of Jethro Tull a huge opportunity lost, especially on the concert stage.
    And that I have to agree with

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Jondon4 View Post
    over the years, the constantly changing line-up under Ian's management would suggest that the entity known as Jethro Tull is a business in which he was the sole owner, thus meaning the others were paid employees hired for specific tours and album recordings. Yes did the same thing as its been reported that Squire owned the Yes name, although the evolution of LLC's has made it easier for a group to form a business for a limited time before dissolution.
    Squire has never had sole ownership of the Yes name: that's purely a fan myth. The band was run as an LLC co-owned, of late, by Squire, Howe and White. Davison, David, O. Wakeman &c. have been paid employees.

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  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Outrageous? I don't think so. I mean it sucks for Barre to more or less get dumped, but Ian (whether because he had to or because he wanted to - we don't know) created a situation where the name is used by neither, but both can play all of the Tull songs that they want in their own shows.
    Anyone can play any song by anyone else live whenever they want. There was no situation whereby both wouldn't be able to play all of the Tull songs they wanted in their own shows.

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  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Jondon4 View Post
    That's certainly possible, but if so their name(s) would join his as legal composers, though anytime I see the attribution the songs always say "Written by Ian Anderson." He himself has bragged that he has been the sole composer of Jethro Tull music over the years. Other artists have followed the Beatles, Genesis and Yes' lead. The Beatles listed most everything as "Lennon/McCartney," although many of their most famous songs were exclusively written by one or the other. Genesis usually attributed the writing to the whole group (Written my Genesis), whereas Yes simply listed everyone as contributors (Anderson, Squire, White and ((add your favorite name)), which effectively resolves any legal disputes as to who wrote what. Most likely the reports of Tull bandmates' royalties refers to their performances and not the composition but I suppose Ian could have arranged something that provided income without legal recognition.
    Yes went back and forth on who to list as composers. Early on, they tended to just list the person with the basic idea for the song, probably unjustly ignoring significant contributions by others. By CttE, you're getting quite complicated songwriting credits, before they switch to just crediting everything to everyone for the next two albums, and then back to varying credits on a song-by-song basis for the next two albums, and then back to group credits... and so on and so on.

    Fly from Here and Heaven & Earth had distinct credits, whereas Magnification and The Ladder hadn't, in part reportedly because Howe didn't like the credit-everything-to-everyone approach.

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  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Anyone can play any song by anyone else live whenever they want. There was no situation whereby both wouldn't be able to play all of the Tull songs they wanted in their own shows.

    Henry
    Yes, I'm aware of that. What I meant was that, by breaking up with Barre, Anderson nevertheless left a situation where both men could play Jethro Tull songs on their own tours. I'm psyched to see his band play in NYC in December.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progression/John View Post
    I interviewed Martin Barre a few days ago. Suffice to say he has moved on but considers the demise of Jethro Tull a huge opportunity lost, especially on the concert stage.
    Really? I'm somewhat surprised by that, as Barre has said subsequently that he was becoming distinctly concerned about the stagnant nature of JT's in-concert repertoire and the increasingly obvious inability of IA to sing those songs he was still prepared to do in concert. Moreover, I was under the impression that there were tensions over IA's unwillingness to make any new Jethro Tull studio albums. Seems to me that the demise of JT was inevitable and probably the best thing for both sides, under the circumstances, though it does appear that it was very badly handled by Anderson. Certainly Martin's sets with his own band are far more adventurous than anything Tull have done for decades, though I wouldn't imagine they're anywhere near as lucrative as a Tull tour.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    Really? I'm somewhat surprised by that, as Barre has said subsequently that he was becoming distinctly concerned about the stagnant nature of JT's in-concert repertoire and the increasingly obvious inability of IA to sing those songs he was still prepared to do in concert. Moreover, I was under the impression that there were tensions over IA's unwillingness to make any new Jethro Tull studio albums. Seems to me that the demise of JT was inevitable and probably the best thing for both sides, under the circumstances, though it does appear that it was very badly handled by Anderson. Certainly Martin's sets with his own band are far more adventurous than anything Tull have done for decades, though I wouldn't imagine they're anywhere near as lucrative as a Tull tour.
    Without giving too much away from what will appear in print: Martin said he campaigned hard and long with Ian to embellish stage production (including addition of guest musicians) and diversify the set list in later years. Essentially, he said Jethro Tull could've re-established itself as a "big" touring band with all the theatrical bells and whistles of the '70s and '80s but Ian just wasn't interested. Ian's voice limitations could've been "worked around" but the main issue appears to be that Anderson considered Tull as somewhat of an albatross and unceremoniously pulled the plug. Barre said he still is saddened by that.
    Last edited by Progression/John; 10-27-2015 at 11:33 AM.
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  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    Moreover, I was under the impression that there were tensions over IA's unwillingness to make any new Jethro Tull studio albums.
    Which was really odd because the moment he dissolved Tull from a technical standpoint he he made two Tull albums. If I were Martin that would have truly chapped my ass. "Nope. Don't want to make albums sorry. Oh- now you're gone. OK, I'll make albums." I'd be, like, dude- F**k you.

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Which was really odd because the moment he dissolved Tull from a technical standpoint he he made two Tull albums. If I were Martin that would have truly chapped my ass. "Nope. Don't want to make albums sorry. Oh- now you're gone. OK, I'll make albums." I'd be, like, dude- F**k you.
    Indeed. It's like when my cat wants belly strokes, and then turns round and scratches me. But, you know, less cute.

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  22. #97
    I think it is cool and amazing that Ian even acknowledges shit like this. Like its any of our business what he chooses to do artistically, in name, or in any other way.

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Indeed. It's like when my cat wants belly strokes, and then turns round and scratches me. But, you know, less cute.

    Henry
    He hasn't exactly got a reputation for being either nice, fair or equitable.

  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    He hasn't exactly got a reputation for being either nice, fair or equitable.
    Yes, but he's got a very cute, fluffy tummy.

    Hold on, are we talking about my cat or Ian Anderson?

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