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Thread: FEATURED CD - Il Balleto Di Bronzo: Ys

  1. #51
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    It's ok

  2. #52
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Never much cared for the guitar on this. Otherwise, pretty good but not one I reach for all that often
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  3. #53
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    I bought this about twenty years ago, listened to it once or twice and put it away until yesterday!!! Thank you for encouraging me to revisit this one as I absolutely fell in love with the dark keyboards and pseudo-goth feel. What else have I dismissed too early?
    The Prog Corner

  4. #54
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    oh man, I adore Melos, YS ain't even close.

  5. #55
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    The notion that much/most of the 70s RPI was about post-PFM'ish "Genesissies" is largely a myth. I collected Italian progressive during the early years of reissues (1989-95), and soon came to know this myth by numbers. I'd say the MAIN bulk of RPI was anything but "Genesissy", and that the latter notion stems mostly from the lack of a frame of reference on the part of the receiving end among certain anglosaxon "prog" audiences whose need to adapt the objective to its own domain is ever as relentless.

    The one dominant trend with Italian rock groups during the era approx 1970-73, was that near-manic stew of hard rock aggression with more intriguing structures and patterns - and often sans the most overt sophistication of most British progressive bands. Many of them sound unusually raw to non-accustomed ears; Biglietto per L'Inferno, Raccomandata Ricevuta Ritorno, Campo di Marte, Procession, Capitolo Sei, Semiramis, Flea, even bigger names like Osanna - the list goes on and on. Some great playing with wildly ambitious ideas amidst often a semi-chaotic approach to arrangements and form. A lot of this arose from the particular influences of these acts; VdGG, Jethro Tull and King Crimson were held in extremely high regard from an early point, and indeed it shows. There were other schools of course, like the keys-heavy bands (The Trip, Orme, Metamorfosi, L'Uovo di Colombo, Latte e Miele etc.) who displayed a prominent influence from The Nice/ELP and Quatermass, to the more refined senses of Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Quella Vecchia Locanda, Premiata Forneria Marconi, Maxophone, Arti e Mestieri, Museo Rosenbach and Locanda delle Fate (where indeed a pronounced Genesis-vibe became apparent), the jazz-influenced experimental bands (AreA, Picchio dal Pozzo, Il Baricentro and countless others) and so on. Il Balletto di Bronzo emannated from that formerly mentioned "manic" bulk, yet with Ys created something altogether utterly idiosyncratic and just, well - different.
    Well said. I think this is something that gets lost, since so many prog bands and pretty much the entire neo-prog revival took something from the Genesis end of the spectrum. Van der Graaf were possibly more popular in Italy at the time than they were at home (Genesis were equally huge, but did not have the same sonic impact on other bands). And it really was the early King Crimson sound that combined both the crunching riffs and the pastoral.

    FWIW, I think this is a classic of the Italian prog canon, but for whatever reason fails to make it to the upper echelon of my favorites. Probably just outside of the top 10

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    The prime directive of prog credibility: obscure band is always more sophisticated than one of the "big six".
    No, it's actually the exact opposite; "big six" are totally and utterly untouchable, therefore that which comes closest to those MUST be the best around (although, by Goodness, never *AS* great as the biggies, of course - I mean, where would we go then?). Check Big Big Brain whatever.

    Again; I hear nothing done by "big six" bands to match the intensity level of, say, Cervello or IBdB. It's sad, it's traumatic, but there you go.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Griffin View Post
    Seems like we have Norway's answer to Luis Nasser!
    Keeper of the Yes-keys...? Well, I'm sorry. Yes were sweet and nice and I like them (once loved them), but somehow they/anyone just can't be expected to be everybody's "objectively best" thing to ever happen in every universe of complete cosmic duration.
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 02-14-2015 at 03:39 PM.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #58
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Again; I hear nothing done by "big six" bands to match the intensity level of, say, Cervello or IBdB. It's sad, it's traumatic, but there you go.
    Well I happen to think that Soundchaser is easily as intense as anything by Il Balletto Di Bronzo. Now where did I put my intensemeter...
    My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/

  9. #59
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Keeper of the Yes-keys...? Well, I'm sorry. Yes were sweet and nice and I like them (once loved them), but somehow they/anyone just can't be expected to be everybody's "objectively best" thing to ever happen in every universe of complete cosmic duration.
    Well, LN had a habit of reminding us / shitting in every thread possible about his issues with Yes post their heyday

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I like them (once loved them)
    And he'd always drop that in when called on it

    At a certain point, we get it, you don't like them any more

    On a positive note, you obviously recognize them as the standard, that all should be measured against

    : )

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Griffin View Post
    At a certain point, we get it, you don't like them any more [...] On a positive note, you obviously recognize them as the standard, that all should be measured against
    Hoi-hoi. First: I know perfectly well about Luis N. But no, I don't get "like him" just because I have now - on this one single occasion - pointed to a couple of examples where an otherwise unknown artist (one of which happens to be the object of this thread) displays a trait which in my personal opinion is superior to Your Untouchable God. Note: I didn't write that IBdB or Cervello were "better" - I pointed to a certain aspect which I preferred with them.

    "We get it, you don't like them anymore" - WTF? I just pointed out that I still like Your God but that I used to love him! There's no "Luis Nasser impulse" at play here, consciously or unconsciously, I can assure you! And from where do you pull the "we get it"? Who are those "we"? You'n'all else?

    Yes, I like yes. And on occasion I still listen to some of their stuff. But no, I don't love them anymore - see? It's possible to love them and LOSE the love! Oh no!

    Best to get over it.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Well I happen to think that Soundchaser is easily as intense as anything by Il Balletto Di Bronzo.
    Yup, but with IBdB the intensity lay in its atmosphere itself - as with a Comus or a Jan Dukes de Grey. This was the point.

    Of course, they forgot the "[...] Cha-cha-chaa Chah-chah!" - but it would arguably have sounded less convincing if Leone tried his hand at that.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  12. #62
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Best to get over it.
    Well, I guess you told me!

    I just seem to remember perusing a few threads where you mocked the "big-6" and then earlier here you called out the Affirmatives specifically in a thread that had nothing to do with them

    Seemed strange is all

    Glad you still "like" them : )

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Griffin View Post
    I just seem to remember perusing a few threads where you mocked the "big-6" and then earlier here you called out the Affirmatives specifically in a thread that had nothing to do with them
    I have NEVER "mocked" any of the "bigs" - I have questioned the legitimacy of how the very idea of those "bigs" are at all times expected to serve as some kind of untouchable or objective pinnacle by which everything else should measure. And hey - you just confirmed it!

    I guess that if I'd called out one of the other "bigs" instead of yours then it would be Freddy Buffin or Teddy Muffin coming in to rebuff my bluff and go "Hey, Genesis/ELP/Tull/Deyss were the best at absolutely all they did, even their farts were golden! Are you completely heartless?"

    My Yanagita-relation to the "big six" here:
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 02-14-2015 at 04:57 PM.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #64
    Member mellotron storm's Avatar
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    Scrotum rules! That somehow doesn't sound right.
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    Fascinating and crazy stuff. My initial reaction was, "This is what you might have gotten if Keith Emerson and Freddie Mercury had been the same person." Gianni has the over-the-top chops and love for musical extremes of the first, plus the voice (and private life) of the second.

    Haven't listened to it for a couple of years, and only heard the CD reissue. But I remember thinking that it had serious pacing problems - 9/10 of it was really powerful and intense, then it wimped out and ended with a couple of pop songs. But eventually I realized that those were "bonus tracks" and not originally part of Ys at all.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    These guys pulled off something which still stands out a mile 43 years later. From the opening moments of this one you knew you were in for a ride you'd not yet experienced.
    The second I heard that [uncredited] Gothic female choir, I knew this was not going to be any ordinary album!
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  17. #67
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    "Hey, Genesis/ELP/Tull/Deyss were the best at absolutely all they did, even their farts were golden! Are you completely heartless?"
    Dude! Deyss had The Greatest cutlery-duel-to-open-an-album-sequence of all time!

  18. #68
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Scissor dude, the "big 5 Symph bands" are only the big 5 in sales. They moved the most product. They were the most POPular. They are Pop Prog compared to any other Prog artist whether they be Symph, Fusion, Avant, Zuehl or Canterbury because they were the biggest sellers of product. That's all. The majority love them the most because they sold the most and are known by the most. Tons of Prog music is better than "the big 5 Symph bands" but they did not sell. They weren't as POPular. Everyone knows Squire's band, but not everyone knows <insert better artist here> because the POPular bands have to be safer by nature in order to move more product.

    The "big 5 Symph bands" were not "big" as in 'they did better music' (cause they certainly are nowhere near as good or exciting to listen to than some of the obscure stuff) they are "big" cause everyone knows who they are. POPular doesn't mean better. As far as I'm concerned, there aren't many Genesis tunes that hold my attention at all. YES do slightly better but are still very pedestrian sounding compared many of to the Italian Symph bands and definitely more pedestrian than artists in other Prog styles.

    The "big 5 of Symph" are the Justin Biebers of Prog. Anyone who has dug deep into the vast ocean of Prog music knows that.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  19. #69
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    What a load of self righteous bullshit - I wouldn't even know where to begin

    Wow

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  20. #70
    Isn't there room for both the more well-known and the more obscure?

    Not everything by the ballyhooed bigs is an unassailable classic. Nor are all the prognoscenti-championed "better-thans" necessarily all they're cracked up to be. It's all a matter of opinion, which is why threads like this tend to become eye-rollers when those opinions are presented as if they were "facts".

    I was listening yesterday to a collection of pieces by Ralph Vaughan-Williams that, for a bit of perspective, pretty much puts ALL so-called "prog" to utter harmonic shame. But then, that would just be my opinion.
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  21. #71
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamiscot View Post
    I bought this about twenty years ago, listened to it once or twice and put it away until yesterday!!! Thank you for encouraging me to revisit this one as I absolutely fell in love with the dark keyboards and pseudo-goth feel. What else have I dismissed too early?
    Not sure what is still collecting dust over there, but in terms of slightly more obscure but just fantastic albums make sure to revisit:

    Osanna - Palepoli
    Alusa Fallax - Intorno all mia.....
    Cervello - Melos
    Citta Frontale
    Picchio dal Pozzo - Abbiamo tutti....

    Those are all winners and I couldn't do without them these days, especially the Osanna and Cervello. Glad you reconnected with Ys

  22. #72
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginod View Post
    I was listening yesterday to a collection of pieces by Ralph Vaughan-Williams that, for a bit of perspective, pretty much puts ALL so-called "prog" to utter harmonic shame. But then, that would just be my opinion.
    Funny - I engaged in a RVW binge yesterday meself (Thomas Tallis, London Symph (2), Symph 3 - 5) and yes, you are not too far off He has become one of my favorite composers in the last 5 or so years, and many folks would devour his music if they invested a little time and energy.

  23. #73
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Not sure what is still collecting dust over there, but in terms of slightly more obscure but just fantastic albums make sure to revisit:
    Osanna - Palepoli
    Osanna are rerecording Palepoli at the Moment with some additional new songs. The whole Thing is going to be named Palepolitana.

    Gianni Leone has reformed Il Balletto di Bronzo with a new line up and some live activity. Maybe there will be some new Album this
    time.
    Last edited by TheH; 02-15-2015 at 08:53 AM.

  24. #74
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginod View Post
    Not everything by the ballyhooed bigs is an unassailable classic. Nor are all the prognoscenti-championed "better-thans" necessarily all they're cracked up to be.
    Bravo! Beautifully stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Osanna are rerecording Palepoli at the Moment with some additional new songs. The whole Thing is going to be named Palepoitana.
    I picked up the first two Osanna albums on one of those Warner music "2 LP-on-1 CD" discs. Both are good albums, not quite as strong as the third but worth owning.
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  25. #75
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginod View Post
    Isn't there room for both the more well-known and the more obscure?
    Of course

    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Not sure what is still collecting dust over there, but in terms of slightly more obscure but just fantastic albums make sure to revisit:

    Osanna - Palepoli
    Citta Frontale
    Love to see Citta on your list, that is one of my very favorite RPI's, very under rated, I love the blend on Italian folk influences with an Osanna like edge - it's fantastic

    Playing "Uno" right now, another great Osanna off-shoot


    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Osanna are rerecording Palepoli at the Moment with some additional new songs. The whole Thing is going to be named Palepolitana.
    I'm sure I will love it, but man, every Osanna disc the past 15 years has at least some 70's song, reworked / re-recorded, doesn't it?

    Love what Sophia Bachinni adds as an example on some of these, but I'm interested to see how much of this is "new", and how much is the original one, reworked

    Palepoli is stone cold, I'm looking forward in any case

    For me they are the darlings of the genre, an amazing 4 LP run through Landscape, and another good one and scads of offshoots

    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    I picked up the first two Osanna albums on one of those Warner music "2 LP-on-1 CD" discs. Both are good albums, not quite as strong as the third but worth owning.
    I'd like to put out there that Osanna is the standard that any RPI act should be held to, just as Yes would be for the genre overall

    For me, anyway : )

    BG
    Last edited by Brian Griffin; 02-16-2015 at 08:11 AM.
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

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