Original Dr. Who shows?

[GuitarGeek]

Saw an interview a while ago with I think it was Matt Smith, who said that back in the 60s & 70s, often due to the cost of film, after they had aired an episode they would resue the film to record something else...AAAGGHHHH!!!!!

You can't reuse film, except to use the same footage in another production (which actually does happen a lot on TV and occasionally movies, sometimes you'll see the same stock footage being reused).

Videotape was often times erased and reused, but in this case it was more a matter of the restrictions placed on rerunning old TV programs placed on the BBC and other UK broadcasters by the technicians and actors unions, who presumably believed they'd be put out of work if the BBC and ITV were allowed to show too many reruns. And as I've said before, I don't think broadcasters realized that anything that was popular now could possibly continue to be popular decades later. And I certainly don't think that broadcasters expected home video to be what it turned out to be.

In the US, videotape was erased because broadcasters didn't think anyone would be interested in watching old episodes of The Tonight Show, game shows, or news broadcasts. Raw documentary footage was often times junked after the finished program was made. So for instance, if someone was doing a news thing about The Beatles, and let's say the filmed a few songs from the band performing wherever, and they only used 20 seconds of the footage in the finished broadcast, that 20 seconds is all that would have survived. And even then, a lot of times, the finished thing got junked too, because, guess what, at the time nobody knew anyone would want to watch it again.

And in Hollywood, they junked all the outtakes and bloopers and such. There's a lot of movies where scenes got cut for time, and then the footage was destroyed. I recall reading, for instance, there were a couple scenes that got cut from Thunderball, and all that exists now are still photos that were taken during the filming. Likewise, John Landis' original 3 hour version of The Blues Brothers no longer exists, because Universal apparently junked the original print, though an intermediary print that still had more footage than the theatrical release was eventually found and that was used to make the extended cut DVD.

And as I've said before, I don't think broadcasters (or anyone else who made such decisions) realized that anything that was popular now could possibly continue to be popular decades later. And I certainly don't think that anyone expected home video to be what it turned out to be.

[hippypants]

From a poll taken from the Dr. Who magazine #474 covered the entire 241 episode Doctor Who run save for the latest episodes starring Peter Capaldi. Favourite Doctor was ranked as follows: 12. Jon Hurt. 11. Colin Baker. 10. Paul McGann. 9. William Hartnell. 8. Christopher Eccleston. 7. Sylvester McCoy. 6. Peter Davison. 5. Jon Pertwee. 4. Patrick Troughton. 3. David Tennant. 2. Matt Smith. 1. Tom Baker. (Yeah, I don't agree, mine might be: Tom Baker, Pertwee, Hartnell, and maybe Davidson.

Favourite Companion was ranked as follows: 15. Tegan Jovanka. 14. Rory Williams. 13. Barbara Wright. 12. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. 11. Ian Chesterton. 10. Romana II. 9. Leela. 8. Jo Grant. 7. Clara Oswald. 6. Ace. 5. Any Pond. 4. Jamie McCrimmon. 3. Rose Tyler. 2. Donna Noble. 1.

Here's the top 25 eps.

25. The Five Doctors.
24. Earthshock.
23. The Tomb Of The Cybermen.
22. The Ark In Space.
21. The Deadly Assassin.
20. The Seeds Of Doom.
19. The Power Of The Daleks.
18. Inferno.
17. The Eleventh Hour.
16. The Web Of Fear.
15. Dalek.
14. Terror Of The Zygons.
13. Bad Wolf/ Parting Of The Ways.
12. The War Games.
11. The Robots Of Death.
10. Remembrance Of The Daleks.
9. Human Nature/ The Family Of Blood.
8. Pyramids Of Mars.
7. The Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances.
6. The Talons Of Weng-Chiang.
5. City Of Death.
4. The Caves Of Androzani.
3. Genesis Of The Daleks.
2. Blink.
1. The Day Of The Doctor.

[JKL2000]

I actually think the effects in the new shows are pretty cheesy too.

So there was a Dr Who show in the 90s too?

[GuitarGeek]

It's series one of that new production of the show. It was a pretty serious reboot.

Actually, no it wasn't. A reboot involves startinga new chronology that ignores past continuity. For instance, the new Battlestar Gallactica was a reboot. It was stated right from the beginning that the new Doctor Who was not a reboot, and that it would continue the chronology established on the original series. And for the most part, they've done just that. Or at least, they've done no worse than the original series did in terms of recognizing it's own continuity.

Case in point: in one recent episode, The Doctor mentions that he spent the better part of a year trying to get a "gobby Australian" to Heathrow, then turns to Clara and says "brave heart, Clara!". This was of course an allusion to Tegan Jovanka, who traveled with the Fifth Doctor. And then there was Sarah Jane's brilliant return to the show (with her even chastising the Doctor in School Reunion for dropping her in Aberdeen instead of Croydon at the end of The Hand Of Fear), as well as well as Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart's obnoxious daughter being in charge of UNIT. Oh yeah, and UNIT associate Osgood was seen wearing a scarf much like The Fourth Doctor's. There's probably been plenty of other such allusions, but I can't think of them now, I just know there were lots of times where there was a throwaway line or bit of costuming or whatever that made me smile very happily.

So to call the current Doctor Who a reboot is completely inaccurate.

[GuitarGeek]

My favourite companion is Ace, prettiest and toughest companion in my view, here in a short clip from my fav Dr. Who story Ghost Light. A very complex story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU4WI_V64w

My favorite companion remains Sarah Jane Smith. She was the first one I saw, and she's still the standard I hold for everyone else who travels with The Doctor. Every time I watch Hand Of Fear, I still cry when she walks out of the TARDIS at the end. Actually, I crya little when most of the companions leave the TARDIS, but I'll never forget seeing Hand Of Fear for the first time, and being shocked when she left.

Of the modern show, Amy Pond is maybe my favorite.

[GuitarGeek]

I remember reading someone (not sure who or where) saying that the older program was done sort of like a live theater production. They'd rehearse for a while, do tech, then bang out each installment for real in one evening, and originally it was never meant to last beyond that week's airing. Apparently it was too much trouble even to edit tape in the really early days, so you can see the actors covering for technical imperfections on the fly or plowing through when somebody flubs a line. If you can get into that frame of mind, it makes sense to approach it that way as a viewer.

That's completely true, but they were pressed for time in creating the show. I think the 60's era episodes were the ones that were done the most like live theater. That's probably why so much of the Hartnell and Troughton era episodes take place inside the TARDIS, or at least, because once you had the actors on that particular set, you wanted to get the most out of it.

Later on, there was more editing going, with scenes done out of order (for instance, all scenes that was shot in the TARDIS, regardless of where it occurred in a given serial, was shot at the same time, because the TARDIS set was so difficult to put together and set up...and this led to at least one on air continuity error). Any film footage (typically anything that happened out doors) was shot before anything else done for that particular series. So in the case of Tom Baker's first year, all the outdoor stuff for Robot, and pretty much all of The Sontaran Experiment was shot way before anything else was done in the studio for either of those stories or even for The Ark In Space (which separates those two stories). Thus, The Sontaran Experiment was the first bit of extended working that Elizabeth Sladen and Tom Baker did together, so you might say you're kind of seeing them "getting to know each other" on screen during that story.

The basic problem, though, was Doctor Who as more or less conceived as a "kid's show" or a "family program", and throughout it's original run the BBC brass were never willing to given the kind of attention it gave to "serious" programming (say the Shakespearean stuff, for instance). I think the phrase I heard once was that the executives had a "that'll do" attitude about the show. Hence, they never had the budget to the show the way they wanted, in terms of special effects. And they weren't only given a few hours each evening of studio shooting. I think I read that they'd do camera rehearsals in the afternoon, break for supper, then in the evening, they'd be given around 2 or 3 hours to shoot material (with each studio session typically, but not always, corresponding roughly to one episode). Sometimes, the power would be cut to the studio exactly at 10:00pm or 10:30 or whenever they were supposed to be finished. Imagine the lights suddenly going out while standing on a soundstage, perhaps even in the middle of a take, and that's what happened sometimes.

2 or 3 hours to shoot a 25 minute program may not seem like a luxury, but that included doing stuff like making the TARDIS appear or disappear (which involved wheeling the police box on and off camera), as well as doing any other special effects that didn't involve models. And I've forgotten who it was who said about the only way you could really get them to stop a take was to say something unairable (ie profanity). That's why if you watch the show, you'll sometimes see things like actors stumbling over their lines (that used to happen a lot on American soap operas too, but they were and still are under an even tighter schedule), or you'll see someone stumble over something, but they don't stop, because they just didn't have the time to do so. And it probably got even worse when K-9 was introduced, as the radio controlled prop was infamously a pain in the ass to deal with.

[GuitarGeek]

Favourite Companion was ranked as follows: 15. Tegan Jovanka. 14. Rory Williams. 13. Barbara Wright. 12. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. 11. Ian Chesterton. 10. Romana II. 9. Leela. 8. Jo Grant. 7. Clara Oswald. 6. Ace. 5. Any Pond. 4. Jamie McCrimmon. 3. Rose Tyler. 2. Donna Noble. 1.

Wait, you left out number one! WHO is number 1?! (Actually, I could probably take a good guess, given that she's not mentioned elsewhere in the list, all the other popular companions are)

[GuitarGeek]

So there was a Dr Who show in the 90s too?

Not really, no. The show was pulled from the air in 1989. Reputedly, it was never formally cancelled, just put on hiatus (as happened in 1985), with the BBC apparently always promising the show would eventually return. Which it did (16 years later).

In the meantime, there was the made for TV movie (which I only ever saw once properly, because the rat bastards on BBC America couldn't be bothered to show it more than once a couple years ago). Apparently, the intention was to start a new, US based version of the show, but that never happened (probably good that it never happened). There were also audio plays and novels and other merchandise that continued the Doctor's story off camera.

[Ken Baird]

I love the newer program just as much in its own way, although I do wish they wouldn't stick with the same pattern for every season quite so much (where it feels like every year has to have a mysterious throughline arc that leads up to a big thrilling finale). I wouldn't exactly call it formulaic since it's usually based around inventive or ambitious storytelling, and it's not as if that format hasn't been done to death across all kinds of shows in this day and age, but then that's exactly the point. This is one show that at its best has always been about breaking the mold.

To be fair, I don't always give the new show enough of a chance. I should try again with some of them. Friends of mine have told me about some really good episodes that I need to get around to seeing. Flatline is supposed to be good from the recent season. I'll see it eventually!

[Fracktured]

As far as companions go I always had a big crush on Peri from the Colin Baker years. I hated Jo Grant though. She was way too ditsy for me.

[Ken Baird]

As far as companions go I always had a big crush on Peri from the Colin Baker years. I hated Jo Grant though. She was way too ditsy for me.

Aww, I love Jo! Peri was cool too--in fact, I appreciate her character more now then back then, but Jo was my first TV crush--smarter than people give her credit for too, but I won't get into a big thing over it

[PeterG]

You can't reuse film

I was using the word "film" in its generic sense, it was in fact video tape the BBC used, which can be wiped and resued. That is what they did.

[Spiral]

That's completely true, but they were pressed for time in creating the show. I think the 60's era episodes were the ones that were done the most like live theater. ... they never had the budget to the show the way they wanted, in terms of special effects. And they weren't only given a few hours each evening of studio shooting. I think I read that they'd do camera rehearsals in the afternoon, break for supper, then in the evening, they'd be given around 2 or 3 hours to shoot material ... it probably got even worse when K-9 was introduced, as the radio controlled prop was infamously a pain in the ass to deal with.

The tin dog was a nuisance to the viewer too. That was one 'character' I never liked. Thanks for filling in a bit more background than I knew, though. Can't imagine why someone would say the effects haven't gotten better.... I understand that according to Moffatt they still have to constantly be creative on how to stretch the budget, but at least you can do better-quality effects on the cheap these days. Nobody would confuse this stuff with Hollywood CGI, but it's far and away better than what they used to have.

Apparently, the intention was to start a new, US based version of the show, but that never happened (probably good that it never happened).

Yes and no, I suppose. I'd have loved to see what a fantastic job McGann could do with more time onscreen, but being Americanized would have been just as near-fatal to a potential new series as it was to the movie.

To be fair, I don't always give the new show enough of a chance. I should try again with some of them. Friends of mine have told me about some really good episodes that I need to get around to seeing. Flatline is supposed to be good from the recent season. I'll see it eventually!

Yeah, giving at least an occasional chance should pay off well (as you've apparently seen). It's not the kind of thing where you have to watch every one to follow along. The best ones are worthwhile on their own. I'd say every season has at least a couple installments that can stand with the all-time best.

Aww, I love Jo! Peri was cool too--in fact, I appreciate her character more now then back then, but Jo was my first TV crush--smarter than people give her credit for too, but I won't get into a big thing over it

Maybe it's because I got hooked in middle/high school, but just about all the female companions seemed at least a little crush-worthy. Except Mel. I could never stand her much.

Jo always used to seem ditzy too--the Brigadier even introduces her as "someone to stand there and tell you how great you are," or something to that effect. But on revisiting the older show in recent years, I thought she did seem a bit sharper than I realized. It's just subtle. (Coming directly after Liz really didn't help either.)

[Proglodite]

I think there's an over-reliance on CGI during the past three or four years on the new series...and oftentimes it's not really that good of CGI (flying cybermen from last season was pretty bad). --Peter

[JKL2000]

Here's my favorite - my first TV crush:

[hippypants]

Wait, you left out number one! WHO is number 1?! (Actually, I could probably take a good guess, given that she's not mentioned elsewhere in the list, all the other popular companions are)

Actually, they said Donna Nobles, they sort of ranked them backwards.

Tegan Jovanka. 14. Rory Williams. 13. Barbara Wright. 12. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. 11. Ian Chesterton. 10. Romana II. 9. Leela. 8. Jo Grant. 7. Clara Oswald. 6. Ace. 5. Any Pond. 4. Jamie McCrimmon. 3. Rose Tyler. 2. Donna Noble. 1.

[GuitarGeek]

The tin dog was a nuisance to the viewer too. That was one 'character' I never liked. Thanks for filling in a bit more background than I knew, though. Can't imagine why someone would say the effects haven't gotten better.... I understand that according to Moffatt they still have to constantly be creative on how to stretch the budget, but at least you can do better-quality effects on the cheap these days. Nobody would confuse this stuff with Hollywood CGI, but it's far and away better than what they used to have.

I liked K-9 myself, but I can see why the production team didn't like having to use him. As mentioned the cameras and the radio control system for K-9 interfered with each other. There's an outtakes reel someplace where you see K-9 crashing into stuff or sometimes not moving when he's meant to. I think this is part of why they had to contrive the idea of his power supply occasionally running down and the Doctor would have to tie his scarf around K-9 and drag him around. Also, they had to come up with clever shots to get around things like showing K-9 entering the TARDIS (there's a specific shot in one of the Key To Time stories, I forget which one, might have been The Ribos Operation, where you see a shot of K-9 moving toward the TARDIS door, then the camera sort of pans up, showing the Doctor stepping out of the way, which was contrived solely so they wouldn't have to show k-9 making his way over the door sill).

And when John Nathan-Turner took over as producer, he wanted to get rid of the "magic toys" or however he called them, which is why at the beginning of The Leisure Hive, K-9 is seen entering the water at the beach, so that he'd be out of commission, at least for the time being. And that's also why when Romana stayed behind with...dammit, can't remember the name of the time sensitive race that she wanted to help, but anyway, when Romana stopped traveling with the Doctor, he orders K-9 to stay with her because JNT wanted to get rid of the tin dog.

There's actually a funny story about John Leeson, the actor who did K-9's voice, appearing at a Stateside fan convention. This was before his appearance was well known to fans, so someone had this great idea to enter him in a K-9 impression contest at this convention. The winner was chosen by the audience, with Leeson coming in at something like 4th or 5th place or whatever. Anyway, this was the lead up to his "headline" appearance or whatever you want to call it. So when his part of the night came up, the MC introduced him and he stood from the chair and turned to the audience, who were now flabbergasted to realize that the guy who they had voted 4th best, or whatever it was K-9 impersonation was in fact the real voice of K-9.

Another funny story was that during the rehearsals for The Invisible Enemy (the story where K-9 is introduced), the tin dog prop was ready, so John Leeson actually got down on his hands and legs and pretended to be the dog so they could work out shots where K-9 would be involved. And everyone enjoyed that so much, that this continued to be the practice for the entire duration K-9 was part of the TARDIS crew, even after the prop dog was up and running.

[PeterG]

The old fashioned aliens and baddies were far better with cobbled together costumes and back room make-up and alien planet sets made by geezers in a BBC workshop...fantastic!

[GuitarGeek]

The old fashioned aliens and baddies were far better with cobbled together costumes and back room make-up and alien planet sets made by geezers in a BBC workshop...fantastic!

I still like the late 60's version of the Cybermen, as appearing in The Invasion and The Wheel In Space (and also present a few years later in Tom Baker's very first photo shoot with Elizabeth Sladen). The thing that one sticks out in my mind is that the costume was made from stock, off the shelf wetsuits, the same kind scuba divers typically wore at the time. It looks like they took a bunch of wetsuits, spray painted them silver, then all the "Cyber" accoutrements were added.

[Spiral]

I liked K-9 myself, but I can see why the production team didn't like having to use him. As mentioned the cameras and the radio control system for K-9 interfered with each other. There's an outtakes reel someplace where you see K-9 crashing into stuff or sometimes not moving when he's meant to. ...

That sounds like it would be funny to see once. Thanks for sharing all the other stories and stuff. Most of that I'd never heard... all part of the "magic on a shoestring" thing, I guess.

I'd... partly disagree about the Cybermen. I prefer the more realistic look of the newer ones, but RTD brought them back as sort of a low-rent Dalek substitute (an anonymous mass-produced horde with staticky voices out to destroy everything). I thought the bigger scares of the classic-era version came from their origins, the way they used to be human and basically gave it up voluntarily. Another illustration of the way the show's power would lie in ideas more than anything else.

[Ken Baird]

Here's my favorite - my first TV crush:

Ha ha ha! Actually, season four from the new series was one I didn't mind too much. Donna and her "Gramps" were cool.

[Jubal]

I will say The Day of the Doctor is a very good episode, but not for newbies. There is too much background that must be known to really "get it"
I still consider "Vincent" the single best stand alone episode.
I also agree Donna Noble was the best companion. Tate and Tenant had an incredible chemistry together. Also, there wasn't the bothersome attempts at sexual tension. They came across as genuine friends who weren't afraid to dig at each other and give some genuine criticism.
Tate's performance as the "Doctor Donna" was absolutely incredible. I also loved Wilfred (her grandad).
The last episode when we see Donna finally get married is very touching. I don't know the name of the episode, but it does show the Tenth Doctor's commitment for setting things right.

[Spiral]

I also agree Donna Noble was the best companion. Tate and Tenant had an incredible chemistry together. Also, there wasn't the bothersome attempts at sexual tension. They came across as genuine friends who weren't afraid to dig at each other and give some genuine criticism.
Tate's performance as the "Doctor Donna" was absolutely incredible. I also loved Wilfred (her grandad).
The last episode when we see Donna finally get married is very touching. I don't know the name of the episode, but it does show the Tenth Doctor's commitment for setting things right.

The End of Time. That whole story had.... a few problems, I'd say, but that part was great and I couldn't agree more with the whole post. That pair's chemistry (both the actors and characters) was indeed rare and wonderful. Wilf was also nothing less than a delight every time he appeared. My idea of fanboy heaven would include a good two or three more seasons of those three bouncing around on more travels together.

[trurl]

Doctor Who is coming out in LEGO. I am freakin' psyched.

[GuitarGeek]

The End of Time. That whole story had.... a few problems, .

Like what? .