Egg

[Steve F.]

I think this album is one of the biggest misses in Canterbury's history. Easily rivaling Soft Machine's Third.

I can't agree personally.

One is a mix decision (a poor decision perhaps, but everything is there and audible, even if not well balanced).

The other is just a shitty recording of very good music and no amount of mixing can fix that.

Had a song like "Enneagram" been mixed the way it sounded when originally recorded for the BBC, perhaps it could have made a well deserved dent on "Tarkus."

What do you mean by this? That it would have been as popular as Tarkus? As 'good' as Tarkus? Something else?

[Scrotum Scissor]

Had a song like "Enneagram" been mixed the way it sounded when originally recorded for the BBC, perhaps it could have made a well deserved dent on "Tarkus."

You may be right, but then again I've never heard that original version and already admire the Civil Surface one to bits. And I never thought "Tarkus" could ever hold even half a candle to "Long Piece no. 3" - and no, JJ88, this has nothing to do with the one being "avant" and the other "mere" "symph". It has to do with the themes and melodies, the arrangements, the performance, the harmonics and dynamics, the sound itself, the conceptual execution and then some.

[JeffCarney]

What do you mean by this? That it would have been as popular as Tarkus? As 'good' as Tarkus? Something else?

Just that I rate it at least as high if not higher than "Tarkus." And perhaps a mix more in line with how it originally sounded in 1971-1972 would have helped to have become better known.

[JeffCarney]

You may be right, but then again I've never heard that original version and already admire the Civil Surface one to bits.

You owe it yourself to own The Metronomical Society, yesterday:

http://www.egg-archive.com/

[Steve F.]

Just that I rate it at least as high if not higher than "Tarkus." And perhaps a mix more in line with how it originally sounded in 1971-1972 would have helped to have become better known.

Ah. OK. I rate many things higher than Tarkus.

[Phlakaton]

That's news to me. The mix doesn't have best reputation but the album is absolutely stellar. I cannot imagine anyone enjoying the first two Egg albums and not owning The Civil Surface to complete the trilogy. "Enneagram" is arguably the most brilliant, fully realized and harmonically rich composition in their all too brief career.

That is the song that hit me square in the face. Enneagram. I dont think you can say you're a fan of Egg without knowing that one. I said to someone the other day --- it might be the most influential and my favorite song of any band - ever. It just has all the gravity and weight I lust over in music. I happen to love the sound of that record. No complaints here.

The other thing about Egg for me - they arent cute. There isnt any sugar in this stuff- it's heavy duty judy man! No playin' around.

[JeffCarney]

Ah. OK. I rate many things higher than Tarkus.

Right, but "Enneagram" has some compositional similarities.

[Scrotum Scissor]

The other thing about Egg for me - they arent cute. There isnt any sugar in this stuff- it's heavy duty judy man!

True. They were one of few from the early bunch of British progressive acts that had my out-experimental music-theory trained bandmates sit up and listen back in the 90s during my years at university. With the usual suspects (except for KC, VdGG and some Yes and GGiant) they would mostly go "meh", but with Wyatt/Softs (up 'til and including Fourth), Magma and Egg they would take notice. I dunno, I suppose it had something to do with the apparent formality of these bands' artistic approach to their craft. The keysman in my band was completely floored by "Long Piece no. 3", immediately drawing the frequent parallell to Stravinsky etc. But it really gets going already on "A Visit to Newport Hospital"; those sludgy opening chords with that saggy yet precise drum pattern, drifting into composed abstraction and the oddest singalong tune - this was quite obviously something else altogether. I still think this is one of the most fascinating kickoffs to any rock album that I know.

You can imagine the guy's reaction on first hearing early Univers Zero!

[Luckie]

I agree that both Mont Campbell's solo albums - Music From A Round Tower and Music From A Walled Garden - are excellent, especially the latter which he was moved to write and record as a result of the encouraging correspondence he received from fans after he appeared in the BBC Prog Rock Britannia documentary.

Do also seek out the similar paean to exotic wind instruments and ethnic musical traditions, the album 'Safar' by The World Wind Band (actually just Campbell (as Dirk Campbell) and Jan Hendrickse). It was recorded between Campbell's two solo albums, and has a warmer sound.
CD UK:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Safar-World-...0764890&sr=8-1
Download USA: http://www.amazon.com/Safar-World-Wi...0765762&sr=1-1

[Phlakaton]

True. They were one of few from the early bunch of British progressive acts that had my out-experimental music-theory trained bandmates sit up and listen back in the 90s during my years at university. With the usual suspects (except for KC, VdGG and some Yes and GGiant) they would mostly go "meh", but with Wyatt/Softs (up 'til and including Fourth), Magma and Egg they would take notice. I dunno, I suppose it had something to do with the apparent formality of these bands' artistic approach to their craft. The keysman in my band was completely floored by "Long Piece no. 3", immediately drawing the frequent parallell to Stravinsky etc. But it really gets going already on "A Visit to Newport Hospital"; those sludgy opening chords with that saggy yet precise drum pattern, drifting into composed abstraction and the oddest singalong tune - this was quite obviously something else altogether. I still think this is one of the most fascinating kickoffs to any rock album that I know.

You can imagine the guy's reaction on first hearing early Univers Zero!

Enneagram was the one I loved the most - but my first time hearing Egg at all was when I got the record in the mail from an auction through Goldmine magazine around 1992... when those thick heavy notes hit the speakers I about shit myself it was so badass. Never had I heard something so perfect for my tastes. Was epic shit and if I was to say something was Lord of the Rings "precious" to me - it would be that record. I lost about a weeks worth of food to buy that bastard too! Worth ever starving moment.

[Polypet]

Ah. OK. I rate many things higher than Tarkus.

Likewise

As a drummer myself, i had no problem with the admittedly overhot mix of the drums. They're not obtrusive really and the album overall was so kickass and the drumming so brilliant... well, you know. The sound of the record is a big part of it's charm for me. Especially given that it was so unique when it first came out. I'd not heard anything quite so wonderful. I've heard far worse recordings where the music saved the record and far better where the music sucked (most modern pop).

As Jeff says, what's done is done. I wouldn't call it a miss either though. I think it's a fantastic album.

That said, i am quite glad to also own the Metronomic set. But the recordings on Civil Surface will always have a fond place in my heart. I still play it often. It's one of my favourite records of all time and Clive's work on it had a lot to do with it

I agree that both Mont Campbell's solo albums - Music From A Round Tower and Music From A Walled Garden - are excellent, especially the latter which he was moved to write and record as a result of the encouraging correspondence he received from fans after he appeared in the BBC Prog Rock Britannia documentary.

Do also seek out the similar paean to exotic wind instruments and ethnic musical traditions, the album 'Safar' by The World Wind Band (actually just Campbell (as Dirk Campbell) and Jan Hendrickse). It was recorded between Campbell's two solo albums, and has a warmer sound.
CD UK:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Safar-World-...0764890&sr=8-1
Download USA: http://www.amazon.com/Safar-World-Wi...0765762&sr=1-1

Ah - thanks for this

[Bytor]

Damn you all for speaking highly of The Metronomical Society, I need it now. The only Egg missing in my recipe ;-)

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

The other thing about Egg for me - they arent cute. There isnt any sugar in this stuff- it's heavy duty judy man! No playin' around.

You need to hear "7 is a jolly good time" and their version of "There's no business like show business". Egg can play the whimsical card quite nicely, thank you very much!

[at least 100 dead]

And I think The Civil Surface has a more than swell reputation with the listeners that actually KNOW the album for what it states musically. Sonically it may be different, although I personally agree with Steve that those (admittedly) overloud percussion tracks have become an integral part of this album's expression.

Just finished listening to The Civil Surface for the first time – really good!

One word about the legendary upfront drums: Actually, the mix is a lot more palatable than I expected it to be. Reading various reviews, I apprehended a 40 minute drum solo, but of course that’s not the case at all. Instead, parts of the album sound like you’re standing behind Brooks in the studio/rehearsal room – there’s a very live feel to some of the tracks. Overall, my vote still goes to The Polite Force as their best, but this is far more than just a nice addition.

Egg pretty much rules (even if you’re vegan).

[Phlakaton]

Just finished listening to The Civil Surface for the first time – really good!

One word about the legendary upfront drums: Actually, the mix is a lot more palatable than I expected it to be. Reading various reviews, I apprehended a 40 minute drum solo, but of course that’s not the case at all. Instead, parts of the album sound like you’re standing behind Brooks in the studio/rehearsal room – there’s a very live feel to some of the tracks. Overall, my vote still goes to The Polite Force as their best, but this is far more than just a nice addition.

Egg pretty much rules (even if you’re vegan).

Woo hoo! I got all excited when I saw this thread pop up again. I feel like you do about the drums in the mix - not as bad as people say - and never a problem for me personally because I never thought about the drums being anything but awesome anyway.

[jkelman]

Nice review. Not sure I can agree with the perceived similarities to the Hatfields, however. Most of the compositions of The Civil Surface had been fully realized and arranged several years prior to its recording. For example, Stewart was using Hohner electric piano in Egg by around late '71, so this additional color was there, but not put into the context of an album proper. Sure, since the album wasn't recorded until HatN was fully underway, there are some dots which connect, but the songs weren't changed a heck of a lot from where they stood originally, and obviously that was well before the existence of HatN.

It's truly a shame that Egg didn't get to release a third album right in the thick of their career. Had stuff like "Enneagram" come out in 1972, I think it would have been put into a somewhat different historical context. And I would also suspect the production problems which plague The Civil Surface might not have reared their head. Had they worked out one more album with Deram, would Robin Black have still been at the controls? Surely the sound he and producer Neil Slaven had attained for Egg on The Polite Force was fairly remarkable and I think has aged quite well. Whereas when Dave Ruffell and John Purdy took over engineering for the Virgin album, Egg tried to produce themselves. They are credited with the same on the debut, which sounded very good but perhaps the engineers (Roy Thomas Baker, Peter Gallen) made the difference? On CS the result is one of the biggest sonic misses of its day. An organ trio where the drums are the lead instrument is not exactly a sound that does those amazing compositions justice. As someone generally disinterested in modern "remixing" of vintage recordings, I must say that this album would be a prime candidate for such an endeavor.

All true, perhaps; my point being, however, that I don't think this album would have sounded the same had it been recorded when Egg were a going concern. I feel the spirit of Hatfield looming, especially in Stewart's playing, which had come a long way in the intervening couple years. And that's why, to me, it's legitimate to draw comparisons. If they'd recorded it right after their second record, with Stewart playing as he was, it would have sounded very, very different, I suspect.

[100423]

Woo hoo! I got all excited when I saw this thread pop up again. I feel like you do about the drums in the mix - not as bad as people say - and never a problem for me personally because I never thought about the drums being anything but awesome anyway.

I definitely don't mind the drums being up front. I like some of the 'imperfections' of mixing back then. It seems that a lot of music these days loses it sense of 'dangerousness' because everything is preciously mixed perfectly to a specific volume and place.

[Pr33t]

All true, perhaps; my point being, however, that I don't think this album would have sounded the same had it been recorded when Egg were a going concern. I feel the spirit of Hatfield looming, especially in Stewart's playing, which had come a long way in the intervening couple years. And that's why, to me, it's legitimate to draw comparisons. If they'd recorded it right after their second record, with Stewart playing as he was, it would have sounded very, very different, I suspect.

Many of the pieces that ended up on The Civil Surface were also played and developed during the brief time of The Ottawa Music Co., so they would have gone through further changes from whatever form they were in before Egg disbanded.

[alanterrill]

True. They were one of few from the early bunch of British progressive acts that had my out-experimental music-theory trained bandmates sit up and listen back in the 90s during my years at university. With the usual suspects (except for KC, VdGG and some Yes and GGiant) they would mostly go "meh", but with Wyatt/Softs (up 'til and including Fourth), Magma and Egg they would take notice. I dunno, I suppose it had something to do with the apparent formality of these bands' artistic approach to their craft. The keysman in my band was completely floored by "Long Piece no. 3", immediately drawing the frequent parallell to Stravinsky etc. But it really gets going already on "A Visit to Newport Hospital"; those sludgy opening chords with that saggy yet precise drum pattern, drifting into composed abstraction and the oddest singalong tune - this was quite obviously something else altogether. I still think this is one of the most fascinating kickoffs to any rock album that I know.

You can imagine the guy's reaction on first hearing early Univers Zero!

This is great to hear -that any students of the 90's were listening to any of this stuff let alone being impressed with the likes of Egg, Softs and VDGG. I was at Uni when all this stuff was still happening, (well a bit later than Egg but Hatfield were still gigging) , and yet there was only one guy in my year I could hold a conversation about music with and although he was aware of Soft Machine he really liked more basic rock. To have a conversation about Egg or VDGG would have been wonderful and I was living in London in 1973!

[chalkpie]

Civil is getting the spin on the commute tomorrow - I don't ever recall the drums being a problem before reading about it here. Maybe you guys just ruined it for me

[Steve F.]

^ ^

Blame Jeff!

[chalkpie]

^ ^

Blame Jeff!

I already did!

[JeffCarney]

Heh. It wasn't until this thread that I knew everybody didn't think the drums were mixed loud on this album.

[Romerovm]

Damn you all for speaking highly of The Metronomical Society, I need it now. The only Egg missing in my recipe ;-)

I must be the only one here, but this album didn't do anything for me. I remember the sound was pretty awful as well.

[NogbadTheBad]

The sound quality is a major issue for me on that one as well, I do still enjoy it but have to get my head in the right place.