A 5.1 Surround Thread

[Dave (in MA)]

I just got the corrected Thick as a Brick in 5.1 from Wayside. It's denoted by a thin bar underneath the info on the "DVD Side".

That's the one that I got for Christmas. It also has a UPC sticker over the one printed on the back cover, so I guess they stuck new DVDs in existing sets, stuck on a sticker and put on the shrinkwrap.

[Dusty Chalk]

I went to a nice chamber music concert last night -- I would love to hear some chamber music recorded completely ridiculously in surround. For example, I would love to hear Bowen's "Fantasia for four violas" with one viola in each of the front two left and right and back two left and right channels (with maybe just a touch of atmosphere so that it wasn't painfully too close-mic'd to listen to). Or perhaps a quintet with all 5 instruments utilizing the 5 channels full-frequency of a 5.1 encoding system. That kind of thing.

That said -- I admit that I don't use full frequency speakers in any of my channels, so I'd have to trust my decoding system to apply the right decoding and send the right signals to the right channels to hear it, but it'd be one less indirection to decode, neh?

[flytomars]

^ The only full seperation like that that I have encountered was on the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet-
With each speaker with a different player.
Another one that just popped to mind is The Tiptons: Surrounded by Horns which is a great 4 saxophone surround album.

[Rand Kelly]

Agree,but on CTTE Chris' bass seems to come at me from my RR speaker louder than my SubWoofer which is to the right of my TV/System. But,having said that,Relayer didn't do that and I like it mixwise just a bit more.

[Progatron]

That's the one that I got for Christmas. It also has a UPC sticker over the one printed on the back cover, so I guess they stuck new DVDs in existing sets, stuck on a sticker and put on the shrinkwrap.

Probably, as I suspect it could get pretty expensive/wasteful reprinting all those books. Mine was a simple replacement disc shipped in a CD envelope. I do hate these problems, had to have the most recent Opeth surround DVD replacement shipped to me as well.

Re: CTTE/Relayer: Maybe I'll add those to my 'want list' and tack them on to an order some day. I do admit to being curious as to how Relayer in particular sounds on my system. It's just that I've already got the original, the remaster, the Rhino, and the LP, so other things naturally take priority.

[interbellum]

It's just that I love the 5.1 format and try to collect all kinds of albums with that mix.

In fact I don't have a 5.1 system..... but a 5.0. Haven't got a subwoofer and don't really miss it.

[strawberrybrick]

Close to the Edge in surround done by Wilson was a revelation. so is Relayer.

Haven't heard CTTE, but Relayer didn't do that much for me.

[ProgFan]

Can anyone recommend a great $500(approx) sub woofer? Time to upgrade!

Check out Tekton Design's Mini Lore Subwoofer. Specs are in a reply in the blog (https://tektondesign.wordpress.com/2...ome-theater/):
12″ Tekton Design subwoofer – BASH 300S powered – 20″ tall x 14″ wide x 17″ deep, 56lbs – 27Hz – 200Hz (variable) frequency response – high efficiency 93dB 1W@1m SPL – 117dB max SPL output @ 60Hz – Proudly hand-crafted in the USA. Priced at $450 + shipping each.

I upgraded my 10 year old system with https://tektondesign.wordpress.com/2...-home-theater/ as a 3.1 setup.

[interbellum]

In the companion guide that comes with Amin Bhatia's 25th Anniversary Edition In Surround Sound of "The Interstellar Suite" Mark Vail writes:

"In remixing the album for 5.1 surround, Amin Bhatia and producer Frank Morrone experimented to find ways of keeping the concert-hall integrity of the music while creating an exciting surround experience. Researching othe surround projects, they observed that some albums place instruments all around the room which, while exciting, can take away from the cohesiveness of the music. Other albums simply keep everything up front and synthesize an artificial reverb in the back, which is closer to a live performance but can feel quite static after a while.

In the end, Bhatia and Morrone achieved a balance by placing the "orchestral" instruments in a traditional concert hall environment, which occasional keyboard or choral lines coming from behind as if from a choir loft. They judiciously panned and spun sound effects and tape-flanged "jet plane" effects around the surround space in a manner more like a film soundtrack than an orchestral album."

[rickm]

I've this one and sounds pretty good.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

[interbellum]

Last week I found a rather strange hybrid SACD. The music on the regular layer, played on a CD-player, is totally different from the SACD-layer.
The album is from the very well known Japanese musician Seigen Ono and it is called "Comme Des Garçons". Many great musicians accompany him like John Zorn, Joey Baron, Marc Ribot, Arto Lindsay and Bill Frisell.
The discogs-page has more information on this one: https://www.discogs.com/Seigen-Ono-C...release/452860

[Firth]

Last week I found a rather strange hybrid SACD. The music on the regular layer, played on a CD-player, is totally different from the SACD-layer.
The album is from the very well known Japanese musician Seigen Ono and it is called "Comme Des Garçons". Many great musicians accompany him like John Zorn, Joey Baron, Marc Ribot, Arto Lindsay and Bill Frisell.
The discogs-page has more information on this one: https://www.discogs.com/Seigen-Ono-C...release/452860

Does the package have CDs and SACDs with the CD layers?

[interbellum]

Does the package have CDs and SACDs with the CD layers?

No, it's a hybrid SACD with a "normal" CD-layer and a SACD-layer.
There could be some confusion, because Seigen Ono also released two other album with the title "Comme Des Garcons", which contain some of the tracks on this SACD. (more details on http://saidera.co.jp/seigen.html#disco)

[sergio]

played (again) Gavin Harrison's - Polygraph last night. How amazing! 5.1 separation is so dramatic. Storm Corrosion sounded pretty good last week on me...

[sergio]

Haven't heard CTTE, but Relayer didn't do that much for me.

there isn't much of 5.1 in Yes remixes.

[flytomars]

Last week I found a rather strange hybrid SACD. The music on the regular layer, played on a CD-player, is totally different from the SACD-layer.
The album is from the very well known Japanese musician Seigen Ono and it is called "Comme Des Garçons". Many great musicians accompany him like John Zorn, Joey Baron, Marc Ribot, Arto Lindsay and Bill Frisell.
The discogs-page has more information on this one: https://www.discogs.com/Seigen-Ono-C...release/452860

I had one of the "garcons" and also an SACD called Maria & Maria (with again a cast of superstars - Zorn and Marc Ribot if I remember correctly) and it was kind of meh, sold my copies for a hefty sum and didnt look back.

[interbellum]

I had one of the "garcons" and also an SACD called Maria & Maria (with again a cast of superstars - Zorn and Marc Ribot if I remember correctly) and it was kind of meh, sold my copies for a hefty sum and didnt look back.

"Maria And Maria" is part of the SACD-layer. Well, the music is nice, but in this case I primarily bought it out of curiosity (and it was rather cheap, unlike the one mentioned on discogs).

[Vic333]

Resurrecting this thread for my own selfish reasons (tee hee)

I'm finally starting to take out the 5.1/Surround albums I've accumulated over the years (mostly Genesis, Crimson, Who, and Floyd) and adding them to my media server.
On giving these albums a second (or sometimes first) listen, I find myself not as enamored with them as I was initially.
Extreme panning of instruments and vocals can sound weird and disjointing. Subwoofers can add great bass to some tracks, but sound harsh on others, etc.

So, my question to the PE crowd is: with a bit of reflection, how much does 5.1 music fit into your music listening time?
Is it a fad that's wearing off a bit?

[jarmsuh]

Resurrecting this thread for my own selfish reasons (tee hee)

I'm finally starting to take out the 5.1/Surround albums I've accumulated over the years (mostly Genesis, Crimson, Who, and Floyd) and adding them to my media server.
On giving these albums a second (or sometimes first) listen, I find myself not as enamored with them as I was initially.
Extreme panning of instruments and vocals can sound weird and disjointing. Subwoofers can add great bass to some tracks, but sound harsh on others, etc.

So, my question to the PE crowd is: with a bit of reflection, how much does 5.1 music fit into your music listening time?
Is it a fad that's wearing off a bit?

The 5.1 mixes by Genesis, Yes, KC and others allow me to listen again after 40 years to the same albums with enough pleasure because I think you can discover new sounds. More and more new artists are releasing their new album in surround which is a good thing. But because there are a lot more stereo albums, I don't listen to a lot of surround albums. When an album in surround is discrete, I always prefer this version than the stereo version.

[flytomars]

A fad that is wearing off a bit? That's an understatement
Commercially it wore off before it even started...
Personally I love surround sound, have a full rig (not a receiver with 5 crappy speakers to match, but a real stereo system with pre-amp and several amps connected, with real speakers and not the satelites crap) in both the living room, bedroom, and even in my car.
Regarding your point- there is a very high variance between the different surround mixes, some are good, some are bad, even mixes by the same person can have some variance in them (for example- what is that out of place crazy bass drum in I talk to the wind?) But overall there are also plenty of gems, for example an album like Larks tongues in aspic which for me was a revelation in surround (and that's after listening to the stereo version for over a decade).

[flytomars]

The 5.1 mixes by Genesis, Yes, KC and others allow me to listen again after 40 years to the same albums with enough pleasure because I think you can discover new sounds. More and more new artists are releasing their new album in surround which is a good thing. But because there are a lot more stereo albums, I don't listen to a lot of surround albums. When an album in surround is discrete, I always prefer this version than the stereo version.

Seconded.

[Firth]

Resurrecting this thread for my own selfish reasons (tee hee)

I'm finally starting to take out the 5.1/Surround albums I've accumulated over the years (mostly Genesis, Crimson, Who, and Floyd) and adding them to my media server.
On giving these albums a second (or sometimes first) listen, I find myself not as enamored with them as I was initially.
Extreme panning of instruments and vocals can sound weird and disjointing. Subwoofers can add great bass to some tracks, but sound harsh on others, etc.

So, my question to the PE crowd is: with a bit of reflection, how much does 5.1 music fit into your music listening time?
Is it a fad that's wearing off a bit?

The key to good 5.1 surround is microphone based calibration like MCACC in my Pioneer LX901 receiver. This is my second receiver with MCACC and it has greatly improved bass EQ in addition to the already effective independent EQ and matching for each channel. When it is done, all speakers merge in their contribution to the sound field. It makes inherent speaker EQ almost irrelevant. I didn’t enjoy surround before I got the first MCACC receiver. In addition the receiver’s extended stereo is a treat and doesn’t suffer from artificiality and essentially makes my speakers sound like these huge Maggies with large soundstage, with our rear reflections that those dipoles have. Surround speakers also have a bipolar/Di polar switch and one may wish to experiment, but I like bipolar on my side surrounds.

[Valen]

Resurrecting this thread for my own selfish reasons (tee hee)

So, my question to the PE crowd is: with a bit of reflection, how much does 5.1 music fit into your music listening time?
Is it a fad that's wearing off a bit?

Not for me. It still feels like a treat.

Sometimes I'm guilty of playing stereo cds as background music and not really appreciating them, but when it comes to 5.1 dvd I make the time to sit down and genuinely listen to the music uninterrupted.

It's a nice alternative to the stereo experience, rather than my first preference, and I tend to just enjoy the immersive experience and not try to pick out different instruments from different speakers.

I have a nice Yamaha 5.1 amp and Sony's hi-end 4k bluray player, which also plays SACDs, so after owning Dark Side Of The Moon 30th SACD for 15 years, I finally got to enjoy the surround layer.

[JKL2000]

Resurrecting this thread for my own selfish reasons (tee hee)

I'm finally starting to take out the 5.1/Surround albums I've accumulated over the years (mostly Genesis, Crimson, Who, and Floyd) and adding them to my media server.
On giving these albums a second (or sometimes first) listen, I find myself not as enamored with them as I was initially.
Extreme panning of instruments and vocals can sound weird and disjointing. Subwoofers can add great bass to some tracks, but sound harsh on others, etc.

So, my question to the PE crowd is: with a bit of reflection, how much does 5.1 music fit into your music listening time?
Is it a fad that's wearing off a bit?

When you say you're adding them to your Media Server, do you mean a Blu-Ray player that's playing the disks? What is it using to "serve" the 5.1 recordings, and what is it serving them to?

[flatliner]

Count me in as a 5.1 fan!! I love them! When listening at home, if I have a 5.1 version of an album, that’s what I listen to.....I’m really glad that artists like Steve Hackett release all their new music this way!