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Thread: No such thing as Prog Pop

  1. #51
    Strawberry Fields Forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    but what can one do when there is a relentless opposition to one's opinions...

    for 16 years!
    Consider the source and move on.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  2. #52

  3. #53
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    What is the fascination with needing to label music?


    /thread
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  4. #54
    No such thing as country-rock.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    What is the fascination with needing to label music?
    The answer is in the question. It IS a fascination for many people, get used to it! Just because you don't get it doesn't make it any less real It is VERY real. The classification of music thankfully means that there are devoted record labels, radio stations, magazines, festivals, TV & radio programmes and so on. Would you prefer all styles of music to be everywhere all the time, qwihtout any division? I don't think so, because you wouldn't in that case be able to read about, hear or see much prog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    No such thing as country-rock.
    Yes there is, it is a mix of two distinct styles of music: country & rock.
    What style of music is prog?

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    What style of music is prog?
    It's like you yourself are always saying, Peter; "Prog is Prog!!!"
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #58
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    What is the fascination with needing to label music?
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    The answer is in the question. It IS a fascination for many people, get used to it! Just because you don't get it doesn't make it any less real It is VERY real. The classification of music thankfully means that there are devoted record labels, radio stations, magazines, festivals, TV & radio programmes and so on. Would you prefer all styles of music to be everywhere all the time, qwihtout any division? I don't think so, because you wouldn't in that case be able to read about, hear or see much prog.
    Why is it so important to pigeon-hole the music that you listen to? Why is it so important to argue about whether something like "Prog Pop" exists? It's a stupid argument - why does it matter????

    The only question that matters is, "do you like it?"
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Why is it so important to pigeon-hole the music that you listen to? Why is it so important to argue about whether something like "Prog Pop" exists? It's a stupid argument - why does it matter????

    The only question that matters is, "do you like it?"
    \

    Agreed. But equally, if other people enjoy discussing between themselves how to classify a particular piece of music, and whether it is "prog" or not, how is that hurting you?

  10. #60
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    \

    Agreed. But equally, if other people enjoy discussing between themselves how to classify a particular piece of music, and whether it is "prog" or not, how is that hurting you?
    It's not hurting me at all - never said that it was. I just don't understand the point.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  11. #61
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    I think its only natural to analyze the stuff that interest you, and classifying could be a part of this.
    The problem is, that music is not science and the categories are pretty much floating bullshit
    Still they make sense +/- 50%

    Music-taxonomy is more of a social or religious event compred to discussing the periodic table.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    It's like you yourself are always saying, Peter; "Prog is Prog!!!"
    I have no recollection of ever saying that. Prog doesn't exist is what I say.

  13. #63
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    one can hope...

    but what can one do when there is a relentless opposition to one's opinions...

    for 16 years!

    you do have a point in that I really should ignore him and not allow him to provoke me
    that *would* be taking the high road and I shall strive to do better

    Persecution complex much? I have taken the high road on you for years, my friend and most people here know better. I have no personal vendetta against you. If I did, you wouldn't be here.


    It's hard for me to fathom that you're in your 50s and acting this way. You haven't changed one bit in all that time. Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course. But you tend to bully and browbeat, entering every single discussion that has to do with labels and referring to people who don't agree with you as "weenies", "trolls", and any other way you villainize and belittle those who differ from you. Then, on cue, whenever challenged you go into persecution mode. You're a one trick pony and you've come in and ruin many a discussion by turning the focus constantly on labels and categories relentlessly. I am sure I can speak for many that the collective response would be "Okay, we get it. Give it a rest.".

    And look at your behavior in the Pink Floyd thread. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is suddenly part of the "Roger Waters volunteer troll brigade". It's a predictable pattern over and over and over again, and as a moderator here who has had to deal with several PMs and mod requests regarding your behavior over the years, I think I've exhibited a great deal of patience thus far.

    But yes, if you really want to take the high road, consider changing your behavior with how you interact and debate with people whose perspectives differs from yours. It's too bad that someone with knowledge of over 5,000 recordings is spending the majority of his time focused arguing semantics about labels and categories instead of enriching the PE community with some insight and maybe turning people on to some new music. Ask yourself what you're truly contributing to this forum and if you're doing so in a positive and insightful way.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Why is it so important to pigeon-hole the music that you listen to? Why is it so important to argue about whether something like "Prog Pop" exists? It's a stupid argument - why does it matter????
    Fascination. many people find it fascinating & need to do it. Just because you don't doesn't change how other people think or feel. It's not stupid at all, and as I said before thousands of specialised magazines, books, stations, awards ceremonies, festivals and record labels are more than sufficient proof of that. Proggers only support the non-pigeonholing stance because you can't pigeonhole a musical style that doesn't exist i.e. the elusive beast that is prog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk View Post
    You're wrong.

    Pop is short for popular, which to my mind means accessible. Yes is very accessible, even their proggier pieces. Yes are one of the progenitors of prog. Therefore/QED/&c.
    Except that YES was NEVER a popular band in the way that Queen, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, U2, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Madonna, Lady Gaga were and are popular.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Proggers only support the non-pigeonholing stance because you can't pigeonhole a musical style that doesn't exist i.e. the elusive beast that is prog.
    If Prog doesn't exist, what are "Proggers?"

  17. #67
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Except that YES was NEVER a popular band in the way that Queen, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, U2, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Madonna, Lady Gaga were and are popular.
    But they were popular, and that's all that matters for the argument.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  18. #68
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    If Prog doesn't exist, what are "Proggers?"
    What is this forum, for that matter?
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    but, Yes *is* Prog Pop in that they were one of the Prog artists to get commercial radio play back in the early 70s whereas Mahavishnu Orchestra did not
    That must have been US commercial stations then. As that is not true of the UK, as there were no commerical radio stations in the UK in the early 70s! The only commerical stations in the early 70s being heard in the UK were foreign stations or pirate stations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    But they were popular, and that's all that matters for the argument.
    You chose not to read the whole thing then ".....in the way that Queen etc....were and are popular"

    YES were never that popular in the UK, regardless of what Americans might think or want to believe.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Prog doesn't exist is what I say.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  22. #72
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    Is this all just a dream?

  23. #73
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    PROP!

  24. #74
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Would you prefer all styles of music to be everywhere all the time, qwihtout any division?
    Sure. It's just like many of my playlists on my iPod.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I don't think so, because you wouldn't in that case be able to read about, hear or see much prog.
    Heck, that works for me!!

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    If Prog doesn't exist, what are "Proggers?"
    Proggers are people who listen to fusion, art rock, symphonic rock, modern classical, folk rock, jazz, avantgarde, electronica, experimental in the mistaken belief that all of them belong to the same non-existent genre that they call prog.

    A musical genre has one unifying musical style or format - PROG DOES NOT! What do Henry Cow and Jethro Tull have in common? Bugger all!!!

    What do Sam & Dave, Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Smokey Robinson have in common? Plenty, among other things, the same musical styles.

    What do Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Manowar, Raven, Saxon have in common? The same musical style and format

    What do Soft Machine, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, ELP, Genesis, 5UUs, Pallas, King Crimson, Zappa, Henry Cow have in common? Not much, that I can hear.
    Last edited by PeterG; 12-04-2014 at 11:07 AM.

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