John Wetton as a bass player

[trurl]

Just as a quick aside, John's alcohol problems are definitely in the past and he's looking and sounding good. In fact I think he's singing better than he did in the 70s. Hate to say it but he doesn't have the bass tone anymore though, not even with playing with UK.

[Prehensile Pencil]

Jeez, some of youse am brootal. As a bassist, JW has been a consummate pro for over 40, busy years, and remains at the top of the heap. As a singer, he wasn't great until after King Crimson but, to my ears, continues to improve in that respect, to this day (he sang like a lark at the final NF !).

The naysayers of his latter day bass playing that haven't seen this Hackett clip should take heed, especially during the revered, guitar solo section. :

[musicislife]

I stand by my statement that McCartney '66 - '69 was quite innovative compared to others at that time. Possibly not in the jazz field (I'm not a jazzer so can't really say), but certainly in the rock-pop field. I find his post-Beatles playing to be extremely pedestrian, same with Wetton post-Crimso and Squire post-Drama

It seems that you are suffering from a severe case of "mental beatardation". Please hand your prog club card to Keith Richards on the way out

[WytchCrypt]

It seems that you are suffering from a severe case of "mental beatardation". Please hand your prog club card to Keith Richards on the way out

It seems you are suffering from a case of "welcome to my ignore list".

[Watanabe]

Jaco kinda redefined the nature of bass playing, making it a lead instrument instead of just part of the "rhythm section." Every bassist after Jaco has had to take it up a notch to stand out -- Marc Johnson, Bernie Worrell, Michael Manring, Patrick O'Hearn, Freddie Baker. Squire had a bright, forward sound with his Rik and Rotosounds, but his lines were more along the lines of traditional bassplaying (unless he was playing The Fish).

hardly.There were plenty of players that had already made the electric bass a melodic and\or lead instrument before Jaco.He had more chops than many that came before him that's all.

[Paulrus]

Wetton was a monster bassist in his prime. He used the same riffing style that Jack Bruce (RIP) made famous and which John Entwistle and Geddy Lee also latched onto, so no -- comparisons to Jaco or Jeff Berlin don't apply. But they're totally different styles of players from different traditions.

What's sort of interesting to me is how he and Bill made a pretty good team despite being almost polar opposites in terms of their approach to their instrument. To me Wetton pushed Bill toward a harder rock style while Bill made Wetton look for spaces and subtleties in the grooves. All to the benefit of the improvs, of course. But JW could also deliver the proggy intricacies when needed, as UK proved.

As a singer he was never as refined as Greg Lake, but he also had a power and fire in his delivery that a band like KC needed. To me he was as perfect a fit as you could have hoped for that lineup.

[musicislife]

It seems you are suffering from a case of "welcome to my ignore list".

Always makes me laugh when people in need of attention must announce this on internet forums.

[trurl]

What's sort of interesting to me is how he and Bill made a pretty good team despite being almost polar opposites in terms of their approach to their instrument.

I suppose that's why... they were like a polyrhythm, playing in unexpected stylistic holes in the other's approach. If that makes any sense.

BTW Wetton was a monster at bass/vocal separation. Try and play the bassline on In The Dead Of Night and sing it at the same time. It's brutal

[Adm.Kirk]

Wetton was great until the mid 80's. I think the carpal tunnel thing combined with music that doesn't require his style of the 70's is where the changes in style comes in.

Frankly, though, I have always been an Entwistle guy. I've played bass for 30 years as well and he's my biggest inspiration. Can't play like him, but I do keep trying.

In regards to Sir Paul, he's one of my favorite bassists as well and his Beatles work is terrific but I find a lot to like post-Beatles as well. There is not an album that goes by that he doesn't have some terrific bass lines. He's not about flash, but melody and he never fails to choose the right notes at the right time.

Bill

[Paulrus]

In regards to Sir Paul, he's one of my favorite bassists as well and his Beatles work is terrific but I find a lot to like post-Beatles as well. There is not an album that goes by that he doesn't have some terrific bass lines. He's not about flash, but melody and he never fails to choose the right notes at the right time.

IMO the innovative thing about McCartney was that he brought the sort of melodic and rhythmic prowess usually reserved for big band music to a pop rock group. Even the standup guys were usually just pumping out the roots & octaves with maybe a harmonic line thrown in here and there, but McCartney was doing all those great walking lines way early on... it's something I can't recall any of his peers even coming close to at the time.

[kayfabe58]

My initial post was meant to get a discussion started...I love Wetton and the way he worked rhythmically with Bruford...I only pick apart his pentatonic approach to free form playing (a sign of the times to a degree)...His tone kills, he has great touch, I just wish he was a bit more aware of the harmonic choices when improvising.

[WytchCrypt]

IMO the innovative thing about McCartney was that he brought the sort of melodic and rhythmic prowess usually reserved for big band music to a pop rock group. Even the standup guys were usually just pumping out the roots & octaves with maybe a harmonic line thrown in here and there, but McCartney was doing all those great walking lines way early on... it's something I can't recall any of his peers even coming close to at the time.

Exactly. In the mid 60's Paul was the first bass player I ever heard that was doing something more interesting than just following the chord changes in time with the bass drum. He was the 1st I ever heard play the bass as a melodic instrument playing melodies independant from what the guitar was doing. When he moved to the Rickenbacker he also started doing cool things like swooping up to and down from notes and using the Rick 4001's bridge mute feature.

[Dave (in MA)]

As a singer, he wasn't great until after King Crimson but, to my ears, continues to improve in that respect, to this day (he sang like a lark at the final NF !).

I liked his singing before it became "better".

[Adm.Kirk]

McCartney was/is a brilliant bassist and I think it gets overlooked by many people too. Wetton and Bruford did lock up well in KC and I think this applies to McCartney and Starr too. They were a great rhythm section and seemed compliment each other very well. McCartney does this with Abe Laboriel Jr. as well today. Of the mid 60's players, it was Entwistle, McCartney and Wyman. No body else in the rock world really mattered. Wyman also doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Bill

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

This year saw the passing of three of our finest bass players:Cornick, Gustafson and Bruce. Throw Entwistle into that mix and no one else really matters, AFAIC

[calyx]

Wyman also doesn't get the credit he deserves.l

Actually, in a way he gets MORE credit than he deserves as it's implied he played all of the bass lines on RS albums, which is actually far from the truth. Once they began using multitrack desks Keith Richards (and, on occasion, Mick Taylor) played a lot of the bass on studio albums. Exactly which songs is now easy to know with all the online sources. ("Let's Spend The Night Together" [KR], "Sympathy For The Devil" [KR], "Street Fighting Man" [KR], "Jumpin' Jack Flash" [KR], "Tumbling Dice" [MT], most of side 1 of "Goat's Head Soup" [both] etc.)

[cavgator]

I'd say he's probably on par with Greg Lake(more or less). No he's not in the same league as Squire or Lee but who is?

Let's see...Jaco, Vitous, Berlin, Levin, Clarke, Myung, Hamm, for starters...

[cavgator]

In KC
He has his own sound and style - fantastic when live. That means a lot to me. There are way to many musictechnicians our there, who can play anything, but you cant feel why they do it.
He way more than fits the bill in KC - he contributes generously at times. Like Asbury Park, Easy money on The Nightwatch, Fracture on the Starless album, etc., etc.
And I like his voice too.

No he is not a fusiontechnician (Berlin, etc.) or a can play-all-styles like Tony Levin, but the 70'ties KC would have been something quite different whithout him.
I feel sorry for his alkohol problems, and musicaly I think he burned out and became a more mainstream player today (less character).

You're right. Levin might have been able to play a bit more quietly, allowing David Cross some breathing room. Ditto with Holdsworth in U.K. I sometimes wondered if John chose to play so loudly in order to chase certain band members off...

[cavgator]

Exactly. In the mid 60's Paul was the first bass player I ever heard that was doing something more interesting than just following the chord changes in time with the bass drum. He was the 1st I ever heard play the bass as a melodic instrument playing melodies independant from what the guitar was doing. When he moved to the Rickenbacker he also started doing cool things like swooping up to and down from notes and using the Rick 4001's bridge mute feature.

Agree completely. McCartney 's bass gave the Beatles' music a bounciness to it. I can hear the bass lines For The Benefit of Mr. Kite in my head. A unique and wonderful player.

[Zeuhlmate]

McCartney was a master of great basslines - from Revolver to The White album there are tons of them, some with a great sound too, Like Glass onions, Sct Pepper Reprise, many others.

[shomanca]

I have always considered John Wetton to be a tremendous, and under-rated, bassist..... at the same time (since he has been mentioned in this thread a few times) I have always thought that John Entwistle was overrated....

[Paulrus]

I have always thought that John Entwistle was overrated....

Hush!

[Zeuhlmate]

Maybe so - But he recorded one of the first bass solos in rock, and his interplay with Keith Moon was pretty outstanding!

[Dave (in MA)]

Not that I'm not guilty myself from time to time, but Zappa once said, "Rating guitarists is a stupid hobby". One suspects that this extends to the lower registers as well.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Wetton's playing on the Mogul Thrash album was a bit understated, but he truly blossomed with Family (and on Bandstand especially). With Cim Kringso I thought he did some of his very best work when improvising more or less freely; "Providence", "SaBB" - and on stuff like "Talking Drum" and "Fracture", obviously. The two UK albums contain some mean, bony bass playing.

Asia were/are not an interesting band, bass or otherwise. My very personal opinion.