How good would Big Generator have been if Jobson had worked out with YES?

[ProgMusician]

Inspired from a thread that's on the board at the moment. I'd never thought about it before. Bet it would have been a great record... Jobson paired with Rabin would have been a very interesting cocktail (with Anderson singing over it - yikes!).

This thread might be stretching the limits of conjecture a bit - but I certainly liked Big Generator at the time, and up until now it never occurred to me that had things gone differently Jobson might have been part of it

[Digital_Man]

I think it's a good record just the way it is. I don't think Jobson would have made that much of a difference. The band was where they were at the time and for the times I think it's pretty proggy for the most part. I think the problem with the album was that it was delayed for such a long time. It was suppose to come out at least one full year before it actually did. These threads remind me of the old Marvel "what if" comic books though. It's all water under the bridge now so I don't see much point in speculating.

[rcarlberg]

Jobson's a talented dude, but I never felt he was really "Yes material." Big Generator, for all its faults -- or maybe *because* of them -- is a quintessentially "Yes" album. If Jobson had been involved it might've been a better record, almost certainly would have. But it would have been VERY different, possibly more UK than Yes.

[dpt3]

Are we assuming that Jobson's being there would've meant no Kaye? That might've changed things a bit, because, as I recall, Kaye contributed more to BG than to pretty much any other Yes album he was involved in.

[BravadoNJ]

what if...... Chris Squire never wrote any songs.

[mozo-pg]

what it...Jobson never played in UK and brought all of his UK tunes to Yes during Big Generator?

[ProgMusician]

Ha!,... yeah, I knew this thread could be messy On a related note.... I always thought it would've been cool if McCartney and Jon Anderson had done a record together.

I can get fairly stream of consciousness in my thinking and it just struck me... this particular *might have been* with Big Generator (had never thought of it before). I'll probably delete the thread if it's just too misty, void and without form as a concept . Love Jobson though... the potential with this captured my imagination.

[Adrian]

Are we assuming that Jobson's being there would've meant no Kaye? That might've changed things a bit, because, as I recall, Kaye contributed more to BG than to pretty much any other Yes album he was involved in.

I've always wondered how much he actually played on 90125 and BG. Rabin is credited on both albums with keyboards, and I've read over the years that Trevor Horn and/or members of his production team also might have added some uncredited keys on 90125. Talk is the only YesWest album where it's made clear what Tony actually plays -- in that case, just Hammond organ.

[Dave (in MA)]

How good would Big Generator have been if Trevor Rabin and Tony Kaye had been replaced by Yitzhak Rabin and Kaye Ballard?

[trurl]

Jobson would never have played on it unless he wrote it, in which case it would be such a different album as to make whatever hypothetical universe this is supposed to be happening in explode. Left to their own devices a Jobson/Rabin collaboration could be pretty freaking awesome though if they could survive the writing process.

[trurl]

How good would Big Generator have been if they got Desmond Child to produce it?

[dpt3]

I've always wondered how much he actually played on 90125 and BG. Rabin is credited on both albums with keyboards, and I've read over the years that Trevor Horn and/or members of his production team also might have added some uncredited keys on 90125. Talk is the only YesWest album where it's made clear what Tony actually plays -- in that case, just Hammond organ.

I think 90125 has a lot of Rabin on keyboards, but BG is mostly Kaye. Kaye had a pretty substantial role in writing the album as well, per the interviews I've seen.

[GuitarGeek]

I've always wondered how much he actually played on 90125 and BG. Rabin is credited on both albums with keyboards, and I've read over the years that Trevor Horn and/or members of his production team also might have added some uncredited keys on 90125. Talk is the only YesWest album where it's made clear what Tony actually plays -- in that case, just Hammond organ.

There's apparently a few uncredited musicians on 90125. There's the sitar on It Can Happen, which according to Rabin was played by a musician called Dipak (which explains why he's name checked in the "thanks to" column on the album), and I think he said there was also a violin player on Leave It, during the quiet instrumental bridge.

If htere's one thing I wish they had done with 90125 is that they had done more stuff like Cinema. Not so much more instrumentals or more "adventurous" music, but I remember Rabin saying that except for one single Synclavier overdub, the entire track was recorded live in the studio. Hence, it actually sounds like a band playing together in a room. Most of the rest of the album doesn't quite sound like, I guess because the rest of the material wasn't recorded live in the studio. So I kinda wish they had put Squire, White, Rabin and the keyboardist of your choice in a room together and at least had them cut the basic tracks as a band.

Then again, there's a million records that are like that, where the band didn't cut the basic tracks together, and it sounds like it. 90125 is but a drop in that particular ocean.

[Dave (in MA)]

How good would Big Generator have been had Big Generator been any good?

[GuitarGeek]

How good would Big Generator have been if they got Desmond Child to produce it?

Is Desmond Child a producer? I know he's a hack of a songwriter who has co-written the occasional good song (eg Heaven's On Fire, I've Had Enough, etc), but has he actually produced anything that might indicate he's capable of handling such a job.

I think the big problem with Big Generator isn't the producer (or it might have been, but I'm getting ahead of myself) or who the keyboardist was. I think it had more to do with the fact that the record company was probably putting pressure on them to follow up 90125 in suitable fashion, hence there's a lot of indecision, second guessing, etc, trying to figure out what's going to continue the success of 90125.

And the other thing I think was a big thing was that Rabin, by his own admission, wanted the music to sound the way it did on his demos. And especially with Jon, that wasn't really happening. Trevor's admitted the two of them fought a lot on that record. I gather arguing is something that happens a lot with Yes (didn't Rabin say the reason he left after Talk was because he got sick of arguing?), but on Big Generator (and possibly not for the last time, either) it got in the way of the music.

And of course, the fact that it took them 2 and half years (I think that was the estimate Squire gave) to finish the record probably didn't help either. I think Boston's Third Stage is about the only album I can think of that took more than a few months to make that was really worth it. Mind you, there's a few of those sort of records I've never heard. I remember Eddie Van Halen saying once that if it takes you more than a couple weeks to record an album, you're just being self indulgent, and I'm inclined to agree. Get the damn material together first, then go in, and record the record, and do it within a reasonable amount of time. Don't spend four years trying to get the right drum sound or the "perfect" vocal take or whatever. Oy! Even Queen knew when it was time to get on with it already.

[SteveSly]

I am one of those strange people who really like Big Generator as is.

[2steves]

what if Rabin and Kaye were not in the group and Howe and Moraz were?

[jrw]

I distinctly remember in 1985 MTV reporting that Yes were considering working with producer Nile Rodgers for the next album.

That would have been different to say the least.

[Digital_Man]

I am one of those strange people who really like Big Generator as is.

Me too. In fact I think "I'm running" and "Final Eyes" in particular are some of the best post 70's tracks YES has done.

[trurl]

Is Desmond Child a producer? I know he's a hack of a songwriter who has co-written the occasional good song (eg Heaven's On Fire, I've Had Enough, etc), but has he actually produced anything that might indicate he's capable of handling such a job.

Yes, he's a producer too... I was being sarcastic though.

[GuitarGeek]

Yes, he's a producer too... I was being sarcastic though.

Well, yeah, I reckoned you were being sarcastic. I just can't imagine incredibly crap his production sensibilities have to be. Oy! I just never knew he had ever worked as a producer, though I suppose it makes sense.

But now that I think about it, I recall reading that Linda Ronstadt produced one of David Lindley's records. Lindley even proclaimed that she was absolutely one of the best producers he ever worked with. I wonder what might have happened if you had someone like her in the producer's chair on on a Yes record.

[rich]

what if Rabin and Kaye were not in the group and Howe and Moraz were?

Well the keyboards would have been better as far as eliminating Tony's parts.

[SymfoZone]

I bet only the members of the Sell-a-lot's Lounge would ever have heard that album.

[JKL2000]

The album would have sold for twice the price.

[bondegezou]

Jobson was first approached when the band was just Squire/Rabin/White, but he was busy with The Green Album. That's the more obvious what-if moment: what if Jobson had joined them and we'd ended up with a fusion of The Green Album and 90125?

Henry