Ernie's post got me thinking about our current musical culture and how it will be assessed from a hindsight's perspective 30 years from now? I know this is a bit off topic, but are there any significant artists/musical innovations that are making any kind of an impact on the collective consciousness today? There just seems to be so much static these days. I guess the whole world is in a transitional period in many aspects.
Well, psychedelic is not a term belonging to the music theory, it is rather a vague description of the music evoking "otherworldly" connotations or "extrasensory" experiences. Given the composition's placement in the "Space Odyssey" movie, it may definitely be classified as "psychedelic".Originally Posted by No Pride
Before we start comparing, let's define prog. Do you mean Genesis? Jethro Tull? Yes? Are these bands your example of expanded compositional prowess and increased instrumental proficiency? Compared to what? To pop? To garage bands?
So they made Prokofiev roll over in his grave before ELP did.
FWIW, I don't consider the bastardization of a classical piece like "The Lt. Kiji Suite" to be prog... or even progressive. YMMV.
Regarding meticulously composed psychedelic music, Forever Changes, anyone?
We've all been trying to define prog unsuccessfully for at least 10 years now.
Compared to what? I was thinking more of The Seeds, The Electric Prunes, The Strawberry Alarm Clock, The Blues Magoos, etc.
Psych genre is another thing.Psychedelic could be anything.As matter as facts progressive as well.
My no. 1 album of all time, 26 years on first hearing it.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Another early long-ish psych track is Country Joe and the Fish's 'Section 43', the version done for that Rag Baby EP.
So you need to juxtapose your prog with what were essentially garage bands to prove the expanded musical vocabulary of the former. And still you may fail, because the Electric Prunes could easily compete on this ground with early Genesis.
Put your prog up against more accomplished bands like Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Hampton Grease Band or Quicksilver Messenger Service, just to remain within your comparison domain, and the theory of expanded compositional prowess and increased instrumental proficiency of prog will have to be put to rest. Go a bit outside the classic rock realm, into any rock, folk, jazz or academy vanguard, and the alleged prog's supremacy and envelope pushing will disappear into thin air.
Let's better stick to the transcendent progression from 1910 Fruit Gum Company to Yes, which one of the forum members has imaginatively depicted:
Last edited by Jay.Dee; 09-11-2014 at 04:02 AM.
Yep, it's a keeper, but I much prefer British psychedelia...
A really good example of the switch from psych to underground is the Blossom Toes, from first to second album:
"Always ready with the ray of sunshine"
The first two CJ&tF albums both feature some highly refined arrangements and VERY precise execution for their time (both released in 1967). The notion of "noodly/blurry West Coast acid rock" is largely based on a myth; acts like H.P. Lovecraft, It's a Beautiful Day, Kaleidoscope, Autosalvage, Spirit, Earth Opera, Mad River (indeed), The Youngbloods, Seatrain etc. made some impressively dense stuff along with all the other, more basic work. The Grateful Dead went a *LONG* was on parts of Anthem of the Sun.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Blossom Toes - Look at me I'm you
Freakin great song.But comparing UK psych to US.I could give nod to latter.
It's a pretty brilliant arrangement though-- a swing piece with lead tuba for chrissakes. And I thought bastardizing classical pieces was a time-honored prog tradition.
When the young student Phil Lesh learnt to conduct Luciano Berio's compositions, future Prog luminaries thought hard how to surpass the oeuvre of 1910 Fruit Gum Company. Apparently they chose the easier task.
Last edited by Jay.Dee; 09-10-2014 at 02:28 PM.
Only in the first generation of Prog. Next Prog generations wrote their own classical pieces.
Last edited by Jay.Dee; 09-10-2014 at 02:28 PM.
Mad River - Amphetamine Gazelle
Mad River - High All The Time
Mad River - Leave Me Stay
I love this song more than wine.
I think this qualifies - from 1962:
The guy who wrote it, Joe Meek, was apparently a fascinating and somewhat tragic character, who ended up committing suicide.
Their first album is practically ALL about dissonance, and "War Goes On" was arguably the zaniest thing attempted by an acid rock group this side of Beefheart's Magic Band. The playing of axeman Dave Robinson was one of a kind. It's a real shame that the first Mad River EP was never reissued in any form; I remember back in the 90s I anticipated a 2CD collection of all their work which somehow never materialized.
This is nightmarish oddball/avant-rock/thrashmetal-sans-distortion of the highest order, ultimo August '68 (and praised by luminaries as diverse as Thurston Moore and Roger Trigaux):
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
About Mad River - page 48
http://books.google.dk/books/about/R...d=MsXuel52NFsC
First time I saw this album was in the early 80'ties.
A recordowner (and artist) had in his shop nailed this vinyl to the ceiling in his shop. It was at that time not reprinted since its release and thus quite rare and pricy. He had nailed it as a protest statement against what the market forces did to art. well... It caught my attention.
Brautigan's connection to Mad River is fairly well known; I believe "Love's not the Way to Treat a Friend" from Paradise Bar & Grill is his poem.
Of course, the first MR album became infamous with collectors due to the off-tempo reel recording that resulted in the music coming out at a much faster pace than intended. Which is rather ridiculous when hearing the "authentic" version of the songs and noting that the tempi are still quite up there.
In addition to the two LPs and the ultra-rare (and, as noted, never reissued) EP, I believe there was also a recent release of rare demo recordings and the rumour of an as-of-yet unreleased live recording.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Im proud of nordic knowledgments.Wow.I have an original Mad River first LP.
I'd never heard this before and for 1968 that's pretty good -I can certainly hear some Present in there. I think maybe High Tide did psychedelic/ noisy guitar stuff even better. This is from 1969:
I saw them live on three occasions and they could reproduce this stuff on stage.
Also I just thought of Family's first album 'Music From a Doll's house' -extremely well produced and played for 1968 and one I still play
Yes, '...Doll's House' is definitely a key transitional album. Things like 'Winter' and 'Peace Of Mind' on there are definitely moving from psych into something else.
Another one I haven't seen mentioned is The Pretty Things' 'Defecting Grey'. It doesn't help that the full version was not heard until the 90s (the original single cut down the length by half) but this is one of those early multi-sectioned tracks. And also the long, tightly structured Incredible String Band track 'A Very Cellular Song'...their creative peak IMHO.
Genesis took a while to develop as composers and even longer to develop as players. I'm not that familiar with The Electric Prunes; I had one of their albums when I was about 13 years old.
I saw Grateful Dead and Quicksilver Messenger Service in the '60s and had a few Jefferson Airplane albums at the time. I loved all of that stuff as a kid, but haven't listened to any of it for decades, so it wouldn't be fair to compare... but somehow, I can't imagine thinking that those groups were on the same level as '70s Genesis, Yes, ELP... and particularly Gentle Giant. And when did I say anything about prog's "supremacy?" By the time I was 16 or 17, I was listening to a lot of straight ahead jazz and was blown away by the practitioners' instrumental prowess... and some pretty great composing too, although more of the short form variety. My dad was in the Chicago Symphony Orchestra for 31 years, so I grew up listening to classical music and heard a lot of composers' works that prog artists can only dream of writing. You're kind of painting me as this big prog advocate and I'm probably less of a fan than 80% of the people here. It's just from my frame of reference, prog composers and musicians were operating at a higher level of musical competency than psychedelic rock musicians. I'm not insisting that I'm right (and I'm not actually very passionate about comparing the attributes and weaknesses of one musical genre vs. the other); it's simply my impression.
That I agree with. And the biggest culprit was Keith Emerson, who was a fine composer himself, but I guess he got a kick out of "rocking the classics."Only in the first generation of Prog. Next Prog generations wrote their own classical pieces.
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