Todd Rundgren

[JAMOOL]

Not sure which board this guy belongs in but if you ask "is it prog?" well, he's definitely got a progressive mindset.

I've been obsessed with the run of Todds from The Ballad of Todd to Todd, plus the first Utopia album ("The Ikon" is so incredible; reminds me an awful lot of "Tarkus" but with Todd's excellent balladeering instead). I've just now heard Initiation and haven't been able to piece heads or tails out of it. I love both the ballads he does ("Boat on the Charles" is one of the most beautiful songs ever written if you ask me) and the crazy freakout stuff like the first side of A Wizard, A True Star (which makes my top 20 list). Is it worth getting his stuff in order or did he kind of blow up from there?

[ItalProgRules]

I'm bipolar on Rundgren. The debut album by UTOPIA is a desert-island disc for me. One of my all-time Top 10 Prog albums (and yeah, that one's PROG!) I love that first UTOPIA album more than I can put into words. It's been part of my musical DNA since I bought the vinyl for fifty cents at a garage sale when I was about 16 years old.

After that, diminishing returns for me on the UTOPIA stuff. I like about half each of ANOTHER LIVE, RA and OOPS, WRONG PLANET.

As for his solo stuff, it just has never worked for me. I like Side 1 of AWaTS a whole lot, but once the ENDLESS soul medley crap starts up, I want to tear my ears off. I know the album is tremendously popular here, so I am in the minority. Most white singers cannot pull off soul. There are exceptions. Todd ain't one of the exceptions.

I used to have SOMETHING/ANYTHING and was appalled at how damn lazy he was. At least half the album is lazy filler. Crap he recorded in high school, more damn soul crap, half-finished songs with no melodies...

But just for making the UTOPIA album, I gotta love him.

[Sean]

For the prog itch it sounds like you have some of the best (first Utopia, Wizard). I highly suggest Another Live and the double album simply called "Todd". The Ra album is his last stop in prog land and suggested as well. For pop you have some great stuff on Ballad. Something/Anything is of course a must in that department too. Next stop for pop? The Hermit of Mink Hollow followed by Tortured Artist Effect. As for Initiation. Concentrate on side 1 first. Don't even "turn it over" until it soaks in. The title track is amazing and very powerful.

[JAMOOL]

I have to disagree on the soul medley. It's definitely the "straight" moment on the disc but all those songs are classics and Todd does 'em as well as anybody. I do agree on S/A however, for all the talk of it being a classic I find The Ballad of Todd Rundgren to be much more consistant; about half of S/A is excellent but there are too many lame ballads like "Marlene". I prefer the album Todd, though it is kind of the same deal. I'll have to spin Initiation some more. The 36-minute finale didn't really scare me too much though I couldn't make heads or tails of it outside of the real freaky sequencer parts which I thought were neat. I guess at this point Todd didn't have anything left to prove so he just did whatever pleased him?

[Sean]

The 36-minute finale didn't really scare me too much though I couldn't make heads or tails of it outside of the real freaky sequencer parts which I thought were neat. I guess at this point Todd didn't have anything left to prove so he just did whatever pleased him?

It's just a synth freak out. It's a test of patience, though some folks like it. Todd was beyond worrying about proving anything at that point. He's a guy that seemed to deliberateley sabotage his career at every turn by doing what he pleased instead of looking at the previous album's success and trying to do more of the same. Had he done that after Something/Anything he could have been a household name, but he had other plans and I am glad he did.

Give Marlene some time, it's a beatiful little tune....

[Scrotum Scissor]

AWaTS is an amazingly creative piece of work whose overall influence on the development of "art rock" has yet to be fully understood - IMO.

I like the first two Utopia albums and two or three of his 70s solo records well enough, but besides the above mentioned title my fave Todd actually came with The Nazz - and their second release in particular.

[Progbear]

Next stop for pop? The Hermit of Mink Hollow followed by Tortured Artist Effect.

I find both of those very mediocre. Faithful is far superior, at least the side of originals. The album got its title from side one, which was a masturbatory effort to use studio trickery to doctor covers of 60s classics to make them sound as much like the originals as possible using 70s studio technology. I have to admit, the last time the version of “Good Vibrations” came up randomly on my MP3 player, it was roughly ¾ of the way through before I realized it was not the Beach Boys version! Still, what was the point? (Not to mention, his Dylan impression on “Most Likely...” is completely embarrassing!)

Most underrated album: Nearly Human. Yes, the keyboards are gallingly 80s but the naturalistic arrangements elsewhere (Todd’s rebellious maximalist answer to �“workstation-plus-drum-machine” pop music proliferating at the time) suit the songs to a T, all of which are beautiful (I always skip the bonus CD track, “Two Little Hitlers,” though; it was not on my original vinyl LP and IMO sticks out like a sore thumb). “Hawking” never fails to put a lump in my throat.

Runt is essential if you’ve got the others. You may as well go for the current 2-on-1 release with the gorgeous Ballad, as it restores tracks from the rare original vinyl pressing. That leaves A’Cappella, an interesting gimmick and some good pop songs therein, but like Hermit and Tortured, there’s a lot of half-assed filler songs.

Exercise caution from then on. No World Order is rife with techno and rap influence, which bleeds over to The Individualist. I fell out with Todd after the kitschy With a Twist and the whole gimmicky Patronet thing.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

‘“What blow, Goblin?” said Corinius.’ --E. R. Eddison

N.P.:“Thick as a Brick”-Jethro Tull

[JAMOOL]

Still, what was the point?

I think this is just a Todd thing. He wants to do it just to see if he could do it. I've heard of the album but wasn't aware there were originals on the flip side!

I do have Runt, wasn't really a fan of that one outside of "I'm in the Clique" and of course "We Gotta Get You a Woman". I've heard really good things about Liars but the 70-minute runtime puts me off. That said Initation was about the same length wasn't it? How the hell did he fit that all on one vinyl and still make it sound alright? (it's 67 minutes if I'm counting right) Once again that's an album I'll need some time with. What bothered me more than the B-side was "Eastern Intrigue" which felt possibly racist and was kind of unsettling. Then again I guess you really never know with this guy.

[Progbear]

That said Initation was about the same length wasn't it? How the hell did he fit that all on one vinyl and still make it sound alright? (it's 67 minutes if I'm counting right)

You just answered your own question. Initiation sounded dreadful on vinyl: low gain, no bottom end, pops and clicks (unavoidable considering the extremely squashed groove, especially on side 2) were louder than the music.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

‘“What blow, Goblin?” said Corinius.’ --E. R. Eddison

N.P.:“Katakomben”-Between/Einstieg

[Sean]

I find both of those very mediocre. Faithful is far superior, at least the side of originals.

I do not agree on any level. The tunes on Faithful are pretty boring, save for Verb To Love which is lush and romantic. There may be a bit of filler on Mink and Artist but it's joyous, delicous filler all the same. And the great songs outshine anything on Faithless. Another one worth getting is Healing. I forgot to mention that....

[OptiquesJeff]

Try giving HEALING a spin.

[yogibear]

hermit of mink hollow is very good , sort of more pop rock todd stuff but killer none the less

[Sean]

Woah! Just ran across this Utopia tune all done up with the orchestra. This is a great one from Another Live. This is right up there with the stuff on the first Utopia album.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW7x38X-SNw

[Skeptrick]

Another vote here for Healing. I really enjoyed the show I saw a couple of years ago of Todd/Healing. Todds Utopia-Another Live is excellent, and I really like Liars from his more recent albums. And seeing him live is always worth it, I have seen him 6 or 7 times and it has always been great.

[bRETT]

I find both of those very mediocre. Faithful is far superior, at least the side of originals. The album got its title from side one, which was a masturbatory effort to use studio trickery to doctor covers of 60s classics to make them sound as much like the originals as possible using 70s studio technology. I have to admit, the last time the version of “Good Vibrations” came up randomly on my MP3 player, it was roughly ¾ of the way through before I realized it was not the Beach Boys version! Still, what was the point? (

The point was to celebrate his 10th year of recording-- the first side was what you'd hear if you turned on the radio (apparently a really good station) in 1966. The second side was new stuff in that tradition. (or so he's explained it).

[JKL2000]

I love Todd and most of his work (I even saw Up Against It!) but I agree on the soul medley. It's like his version of the Yes solo spots - enough!

[zombywoof]

Sean showed me some Utopia the other day and I rather enjoyed it. I hope to pick it up soon.

[Bigpicturekeys]

Wow, great vid of 7th Ray..I too saw him with an orchestra but this was omitted from his set.

[Bbernardini]

I love Todd and most of his work (I even saw Up Against It!) but I agree on the soul medley. It's like his version of the Yes solo spots - enough!

Wow! "Up Against It" is actually one of my favorite things he's ever done. Never got to see it, but I have an audience recording of one of the performances.

[mogrooves]

I've never heard his "Prog" stuff, but The Nazz were criminally underrated.....

[3RDegree_Robert]

For pop HERMIT OF MINK HOLLOW, TORTURED ARTIST EFFECT, SECOND WIND are damn good

Borderline prog favs are HEALING & INITIATION

Newer stuff: LIARS, and if you can deal with rap/spoken word I really still love NO WORLD ORDER

[Andre C]

... What bothered me more than the B-side was "Eastern Intrigue" which felt possibly racist and was kind of unsettling. Then again I guess you really never know with this guy.

Wow -- what a statement.
please elaborate. Are you saying "you never really know" - -that Todd is/was possibly racist?

And what strikes you as racist about "EI" ? Interesting. It's getting impossible to mention any race or culture besides your own and not be under suspicion of racism. Even 37 years later.....

[MR654]

Todd is probably the only artist my wife and I totally agree on. We stopped counting after we saw him live over 40 times, solo, band etc. Met him several times and he is truly a cordial artist. In our house, " Todd is Godd". Period, end of story. Some pop, some Prog but always a visionary.

[meimjustalawnmower]

We stopped counting after we saw him live over 40 times, solo, band etc. Met him several times and he is truly a cordial artist. In our house, " Todd is Godd". Period, end of story. Some pop, some Prog but always a visionary.
Wow. I loves me some Todd, but jeez! 40 times? Really?

[JAMOOL]

Wow -- what a statement.
please elaborate. Are you saying "you never really know" - -that Todd is/was possibly racist?

And what strikes you as racist about "EI" ? Interesting. It's getting impossible to mention any race or culture besides your own and not be under suspicion of racism. Even 37 years later.....

The lyric "and a dash of the old Kung Fu" with a faux-Asian accent was the real "what the hell?" moment on that song. I really don't want to derail this thread, just saying that *for me* that was kind of unsettling.

[Andre C]

Understood. Just interesting that over the course, of, what, 40 albums? 60??, that one debatable line would indicate it's possible that someone who's said so much about world peace and spoken AGAINST oppression and every -ism in the book, could be racist. I respect your opinion, but that's such a strong word, I just wanted to know if there was some track record stuff that made you think so.

On a side note: You can't win. Jamaicans speak the way they do, Japanese speak the way they do, I'm in Italy at the moment and Italians that have learned english speak the way they do. Nigerians speak english the way they do. If I do a song where one of them is the character, I'm gonna speak like them for the line.

You're entitle to your opinion, for SURE, my friend, but it's a real minefield when someone is gonna wonder or be unsure about someone being racist on such paper thin stuff. But , carry on.

IMHO, Todd is amazing, I too have seen him probably 40-50 times, and there is something great on every album, every era. One of the most unsung guitarists of the last 50 yrs, as well. His work on "Bat Out Of Hell" alone (he plays every guitar note) should be studied in music schools for cool, creative and classic licks. The production work -- holy crap. Some real american rock n roll gems were brought to life under his stoned watch....

[arturs]

I have always wondered why Todd & Utopia were never considered top-shelf proggers back in the day. I find the Utopia debut and RA to be prog classics close in quality to CTTE and SEBTP. Was it because Todd was a little late to the prog party? Perhaps because he was doing pop albums simultaneously? Or because he previously had singer/songwriter type hits? All of the above?

[JAMOOL]

If I do a song where one of them is the character, I'm gonna speak like them for the line.


All I'm saying is that imitating someone's accent can be offensive and it's off-putting coming from Todd. He's not even speaking in character for that line. I'm not saying Todd is racist, as you say that's a paper-thin coorelation to make. I don't think Elvis Costello is racist either. I'm pretty sure that everybody at some point in their lives has said something that's offensive to some race though. Todd just happened to put it on a LP ;)

[Andre C]

OK cool, understood, You've clarified. You had said you were wondering. All good.

We agree that Todd rocks. And certainly tackles a lot of major subjects..and heavy topics..

One of the gems of american music, for sure.

BTW - -anyone on Spotify, there is a bunch of live stuff on there that I've not seen on CD, some of it 2012 releases, including a Hammersmith Odeon show of the original Utopia lineup -- incredible show!! Probably the only live release so far with With Luther Vandross on backing vocals...who toured with them a while, I have some boots with him on.

[JAMOOL]

Exactly. All it confirms is that Todd's brain is just all over the place.


I have always wondered why Todd & Utopia were never considered top-shelf proggers back in the day. I find the Utopia debut and RA to be prog classics close in quality to CTTE and SEBTP. Was it because Todd was a little late to the prog party? Perhaps because he was doing pop albums simultaneously? Or because he previously had singer/songwriter type hits? All of the above?

I'm guessing all of the above but didn't Todd kind of lose a big chunk of his fanbase after A Wizard, A True Star?

[progeezer]

I like later TR well enough (I do own Something/Anything & AWATS), but I play the first 2 Nazz albums far more, even today. Criminally underrated is how Mo put it, and that's the way I see it as well.

Were they not taken seriously back then because TR was 18 and the other 3 were all younger than that?

The compositional skill of "Hello It's Me" and especially "If That's The Way You Feel" wasn't good enough????:O:O

[Plasmatopia]

I have mixed feelings about TR and Utopia. My working theory is that I discovered them at the right time in my life to thoroughly enjoy them...before I got too stuffy or cynical. These days I hear a lot of things in TR's/Utopia's music that just seems a little "off" or sometimes cheesy or questionable production, etc. Some stuff makes me cringe a bit or just isn't as satisfying as I think it could have been with a more modern production. But I think, if you're unfamiliar but willing to dig in and really check it out there is plenty of worthwhile material and when you add it all up (and divide by zero? :) ) it's amazing how much TR has done.

I can't say I've really enjoyed much after 2nd Wind though. :)

[meimjustalawnmower]

I like later TR well enough (I do own Something/Anything & AWATS), but I play the first 2 Nazz albums far more, even today.
You know you're old when you refer to Something/Anything & AWATS as "later TR". ;)

[bRETT]

I'm guessing all of the above but didn't Todd kind of lose a big chunk of his fanbase after A Wizard, A True Star?

He didn't have much of a fanbase to lose. "Hello Its Me" didn't really catch on until after AWATS was out.

[Bigpicturekeys]

Pick up the DVD's of Healing and Todd from his music store on the website. They are reasonably priced and are worth the money for the bonus interviews themselves. Many of your questions are answered. He acknowledges that he could have gone on writing 100's of Something Anythings and garnered much success, but wasn't motivated by that. AWATS is a classic and most releases in succession are a change from the last. An extremely intelligent and well thought
artist. I have also seen him 35-40 times and no two shows have been the same. It is this creative process that puts some awe into Todd. He rarely rehashes anything.

[trurl]

Nearly Human is as great for slick AOR as anything this side of Steely Dan. Love that album. I really like Healing too. I'm a sucker for everything Utopia up to the last album. I to tend to think his solo stuff is spotty after Hermit. I actually think a lot of the music on No World Order is pretty dang good, but you have to put up with him trying to rap.

[Sean]

Pick up the DVD's of Healing and Todd from his music store on the website. They are reasonably priced and are worth the money for the bonus interviews themselves. Many of your questions are answered.

Agreed! Highly suggested. Each interview is an hour long so you get a lot of info on his whole career and then some. The shows are awesome too, I was lucky enough to see one in person and the DVDs are great reminders of what a time it was.

[bRETT]

The lyric "and a dash of the old Kung Fu" with a faux-Asian accent was the real "what the hell?" moment on that song. I really don't want to derail this thread, just saying that *for me* that was kind of unsettling.

He was making fun of a very popular TV show.

[Rufus]

Ra is a desert island disk for me...just wish someone would release a DVD from that tour . There's some amazing footage on You Tube.

[Dean Watson]

Imagine listening to the likes of Grand Funk, Sabbath and the like, and having your older brother tell you to sit down in front of your parent's stereo console and listen to the entire AWATS? That's what happened to me. That day changed my musical direction forever. Todd Rundgren's not God, but he's quite simply The Man!

[yogibear]

just wish someone would release a DVD from that tour . There's some amazing footage on You Tube. RA would be very cool since i went to the SF show and have little to no memories about the show overall except for when Todd went to open the case with the glass guitar it was broken into many little pieces so Todd had to improvise. ;)

[Bigpicturekeys]

Not to hijack the thread, but if given an opportunity, pick up Dean Watson's Cd "Unsettled". Dean, you seem much too kind to self promote, so somebody's got to do it!

[unclemeat]

http://www.keezer.tv/trmo/

[Finn_McCool]

Does anybody know what Sun Ra tune(s) Rundgern performed with the string quartet Ethel on the last tour? The show in the DC area took place the night before Hurricane/Superstorm Sandy, so I decided to hunker instead of gonig to the show. The review of the show in The Washington Post did not mention any Sun Ra numbers.

[unclemeat]

Something's coming ... A box set of the Utopia 2011 reunion
https://cleorecs.com/store/shop/todd-rundgrens-utopia-benefit-for-moogy-klingman-2dvd-4cd/

https://www.newjerseystage.com/articles/2020/04/08/todd-rundgrens-utopia-benefit-for-moogy-klingman-2011-reunion-concert-recordings-now-available-in-a-limited-edition-box-set/?fbclid=IwAR23tqxc2BcXd1SgH7Dd6FOXNwLx_j2kGKHcPiLK xVbH6oGXDbiCwQ_lHqk

[arturs]

^^^ :up. I was hoping we might see the original Utopia tour again but very unlikely. These (very strong) shows on DVD are likely the next best thing. They were (probably still are...) up on Youtube and at one point I made my own DVDs of them. But great to see an official release.

[Sean]

Original Utopia died with Moogy. Unfortunately.

[arturs]

Original Utopia died with Moogy. Unfortunately.

IIRC Schuckett Siegler and Ellman were all in the 2011 band along with Moogy and Todd (and "new" guys Kaz and Jesse Gress). Also IIRC Moogy passed away after the first few shows. They finished the tour without him. So if that band went out again now I think they still have a legit claim to "original Utopia." But it is not likely. I think the 2011 tour was done primarily to help out Moogy spiritually as well as financially and I'm not sure the guys would be enthusiastic about another go at it today.

[bRETT]

IIRC Schuckett Siegler and Ellman were all in the 2011 band along with Moogy and Todd (and "new" guys Kaz and Jesse Gress). Also IIRC Moogy passed away after the first few shows..

There were two legs of the reunion, in January and then in November. Moogy's health kept him from the latter, and he was missed. But the band (especially Todd and Ralph Shuckett) stepped up and made the shows special. This was the stretch where they played the first two albums in their entirety. I beieve Jesse and Kasim only sang, the guitar and bass were all Todd and John Siegler. (Jesse may have played guitar on a song or two., Kasim definitely didn't play bass).

[aith01]

Today I was scrolling through Todd's discography on Spotify, looking for live albums to listen to, and saw that Liars Live (the audio) was on there. What?! :O To my knowledge, that had only ever been available as a DVD.

So I went onto iTunes and immediately bought it. There's some great versions of these tunes, both old and new, and to have a good audio version of this concert puts me over the moon. |)

[Progbear]

If you want to get super-pedantic about it, “original Utopia” was Todd, Dave Mason (not that one), “M. Frog” and the Sales brothers. Mason died in 2013, so this version’s not happening, either.

I did see the Todd/Kaz/Roger/Willie line-up in 1994 at a warm-up show for their “Redux” tour. We probably won’t see that lineup either, since Willie and Todd had a falling out, and Roger’s carpal tunnel won’t allow him to play keyboards anymore.

[Polypet]

Today I was scrolling through Todd's discography on Spotify, looking for live albums to listen to, and saw that Liars Live (the audio) was on there. What?! :O To my knowledge, that had only ever been available as a DVD.

So I went onto iTunes and immediately bought it. There's some great versions of these tunes, both old and new, and to have a good audio version of this concert puts me over the moon. |)

Really? I'd not heard about this. Thank you, man!

[Unfrankie Valli]

I did see the Todd/Kaz/Roger/Willie line-up in 1994 at a warm-up show for their “Redux” tour. We probably won’t see that lineup either, since Willie and Todd had a falling out, and Roger’s carpal tunnel won’t allow him to play keyboards anymore.
I agree that Roger Powell's performing days with Utopia are probably over, but Rundgren and Wilcox toured in Utopia last year so are presumably reconciled.

Full show here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obz6BgmkYnU

[aith01]

Just a few days ago I went to see Todd and his band perform in Atlanta (about 3 hours away from where I live). First time ever seeing him in concert, and I was blown away. Great set list, and the performers were all so good. I was super excited to see Kasim Sulton, Prairie Prince, and Gil Assayas all together as well. Jesse Gress and Bobby Strickland I was not as familiar with, but I love them now. What a fantastic group of musicians. I could not get over how good the band sounded, and how full those song renditions were. Never thought I'd get to hear "Real Man" (one of my faves) performed live, so that was a highlight. :heart Now I need to dust off some of my Rundgren and Utopia concert DVDs...

Also as a bonus, I ran into Sean on my way out of the venue!

Sean, for some reason it never crossed my mind that you might be at that concert too -- even though you're also a fan, and local to that area. :lol It was really nice getting to meet you in person after all these years, and chat for a few minutes face to face. Made the whole experience even cooler. :)

[Sean]

So glad you got to take in a live Todd show! He was in really good voice and the band was kickin!

Great to meet you as well!!

Here's a bit of the show-


https://youtu.be/tMXt_iD1V94


https://youtu.be/5o5cRx-49Wk


https://youtu.be/-r_c8UGk65g

[JKL2000]

Was Todd performing any of his recent singles? Have to say I haven’t enjoyed them, but wondering if they work better live.

[aith01]

So glad you got to take in a live Todd show! He was in really good voice and the band was kickin!

Agreed, his voice sounded great and the band was tight and energetic. I'm glad I finally got to see these guys in concert. :)



Was Todd performing any of his recent singles? Have to say I haven’t enjoyed them, but wondering if they work better live.

The only recent thing they did was "Evrybody" from Global, and they played it as the encore. Not one of my favorites, but they made it a lot of fun in a live setting.

[Sean]

Everything he did was from the 70s. Last tour he mixed in some newer stuff, but this time it was all about a dose of the Wizard album + hits and a few deep cuts.

[aith01]

Everything he did was from the 70s. Last tour he mixed in some newer stuff, but this time it was all about a dose of the Wizard album + hits and a few deep cuts.

With the tour name having "The Individualist" in the title, I was expecting to hear some tunes from that album -- would've been happy if they played some, but honestly I'd have been happy with just about anything. :lol The set list was really enjoyable, and had some inclusions I did not expect at all.

That latter half of AWATS was so much fun.

[JKL2000]

I like Global!

[StarThrower]

I don't know how it's viewed by his fans or rock fans in general but I found a used copy of Back To The Bars at my local record shop. I still haven't listened to it. There was a copy of Something Anything which I bought as well. I had a copy 20-25 years ago which I sold so I was glad to get it back.

[soundsweird]

Back to the Bars is a good live album; my Castle remastered CD sounds very good. I also have King Biscuit Flower Hour on CD, another winner. And of course the first two Utopia albums.

[Victorian Squid]

I don't know how it's viewed by his fans or rock fans in general but I found a used copy of Back To The Bars at my local record shop. I still haven't listened to it. There was a copy of Something Anything which I bought as well. I had a copy 20-25 years ago which I sold so I was glad to get it back.

LOL, back in the late 70's, I kept my birth certificate in the album sleeve of Back To The Bars, because I needed the stupid thing in order to buy booze when I attending college in Oregon! Get it? Back to the Bars? They wouldn't take a DL in that state. Go fig. Back to the Bars is an ok live document, I'm really not a fan of live albums in general, no matter how good. IIRC, there's some annoying jerk on that album who's whistling his guts out through a few songs in the quiet parts. Last time I spun that was probably in the 70's. I'd prefer to listen to the full song, not a medley as well.

I was a fan of Todd starting with Runt (one of those Tower Record "what is that that's playing?" discoveries), and definitely loved Something/Anything. My 2 favorites of his are the brilliant Wizard (of course) and Todd - which I listen to often to this day. Utopia is in a class by itself. Initiation is certainly "prog" as well, but it just never really clicked with me like his first 3. Although you can definitely hear his Utopia Mk2 aesthetic starting to rear its head on side one. One problem I had was him cramming more than an LP's worth of tunes onto the platter. C'mon Todd, just because you can, doesn't mean you should! The sound quality suffered greatly - especially considering the pains he went through to engineer and produce these things only to mess it up with micro grooves and over 30 minutes per side. One of the few times I preferred the digital versions of anything. Girls loved Todd, which was an added bonus!

The last time I saw Todd live was for the RA tour! After that it was diminishing returns IMO. He always followed his muse, which is great, but sometimes that means losing people along the way. I enjoyed Hermit (well really, my GF's did) and Adventures In, even Healing to a lesser extent. But by the late 70's I was into far more diverse and exciting new sounds [insert a dozen+ punk/new wave/new romantic/electronic bands here]. Although Todd did produce some of the best for a few years! Personally, the most exciting thing I've heard from him recently is his collaboration with Sparks.

[aith01]

Although you can definitely hear his Utopia Mk2 aesthetic starting to rear its head on side one.

You say that like it's a bad thing. :lol If by Utopia Mk2 you mean the 4-man lineup with Sulton, Powell, and Wilcox, that is my favorite version of the band (I love all of their records, and even scored a near-mint copy of Oblivion on vinyl at my local record store recently). And I love the first side of Initiation as well, precisely because of how well it melds Todd's more experimental ambitions with his soul/pop/rock influences.

[Victorian Squid]

You say that like it's a bad thing. :lol If by Utopia Mk2 you mean the 4-man lineup with Sulton, Powell, and Wilcox, that is my favorite version of the band (I love all of their records, and even scored a near-mint copy of Oblivion on vinyl at my local record store recently). And I love the first side of Initiation as well, precisely because of how well it melds Todd's more experimental ambitions with his soul/pop/rock influences.

I didn't say "ugly" head!

I think Initiation could have been near perfect if he'd have ditched side 2 and done another song or two - or even a cover - which would have made it a normal album length. But then again, I know a lot of people who prefer the experimentation of side 2, so what do I know? I really think of Utopia as the Mk2 band TBH. The album Utopia was just a bunch of guys making incredible music, and a completely different beast. No pop aspirations there. But that was one of my all time faves when it came out and a benchmark for a lot of what came afterwards for a while. What I appreciated most about Todd was his mixing genres - sometimes in the same song. Common now, but completely unheard of back then. Something/Anything shouldn't have been anything I liked as a teen, but it broadened my horizons.

Utopia definitely got the short shrift with critics, which is a shame. Starting with Oops and especially Swing, they were firing on all cylinders. I do think there was some contractual issues around the time of Utopia, but I can't remember what it was. That's probably my least favorite from that period. And some real gems have fallen through the cracks as time has passed. Oblivion and POV are all but forgotten. Luckily, I never got rid of my LP collection (started in 1968), so no worries as far as hunting anything down that's out of print!

[Sean]

With the tour name having "The Individualist" in the title, I was expecting to hear some tunes from that album

Like a double shot of this? :D


https://youtu.be/4cTO5RbFkaM

[Progbear]

Like a double shot of this? :D


https://youtu.be/4cTO5RbFkaM

The only song I really actually like off The Individualist. Actually, I love it! It’s very quintessentially Todd. In spite of the very “of its time” production, the sound is very “four-man Utopia.” Chords and melodies to die for! I’m sure the fact that I am a bit of a coffee fiend helped more than a little towards me connecting with this song.

[aith01]

I didn't say "ugly" head!

True! I couldn't quite tell if it was a good or bad connotation. ;)



I think Initiation could have been near perfect if he'd have ditched side 2 and done another song or two - or even a cover - which would have made it a normal album length. But then again, I know a lot of people who prefer the experimentation of side 2, so what do I know? I really think of Utopia as the Mk2 band TBH. The album Utopia was just a bunch of guys making incredible music, and a completely different beast. No pop aspirations there. But that was one of my all time faves when it came out and a benchmark for a lot of what came afterwards for a while. What I appreciated most about Todd was his mixing genres - sometimes in the same song. Common now, but completely unheard of back then. Something/Anything shouldn't have been anything I liked as a teen, but it broadened my horizons.

Utopia definitely got the short shrift with critics, which is a shame. Starting with Oops and especially Swing, they were firing on all cylinders. I do think there was some contractual issues around the time of Utopia, but I can't remember what it was. That's probably my least favorite from that period. And some real gems have fallen through the cracks as time has passed. Oblivion and POV are all but forgotten. Luckily, I never got rid of my LP collection (started in 1968), so no worries as far as hunting anything down that's out of print!

While I like most of "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire", I think I would have preferred if it was shortened or else if there was more stuff like what was on side 1. Or else make it a double LP. :lol But it's still a pretty amazing record, IMO.

I really like that first Utopia record also, and even like most of Ra -- "Singring and the Glass Guitar" has some really cool pieces, but it's a bit of a mess; that might be part of its charm I suppose. :lol They did seem to get short shrift, undeservedly. Utopia made some great stuff, even up through POV. My least favorite was probably Swing to the Right, mostly because I just didn't enjoy as many of the songs on that one for some reason (but that was also a pretty depressing point in my life when I first heard it). But the s/t Utopia record was a really tight, punchy collection of pop tunes with brainy chord and melody choices.

Glad that you still have your LP collection though! That helps a lot, not having to try tracking down stuff that might be hard to find now. :D I'm still working on building up my Todd/Utopia vinyl collection (even though I've got them all on CD already and should probably be more wise with my money...)



What I appreciated most about Todd was his mixing genres - sometimes in the same song. Common now, but completely unheard of back then. Something/Anything shouldn't have been anything I liked as a teen, but it broadened my horizons.

Same here. I actually didn't discover Something/Anything until I was about 20, and I didn't really like it until about a year or so later when I listened to the whole thing during a late-night study (i.e. cram) session in college. :lol The sheer diversity and craft on display finally hit me, and it led me to check out more of his stuff and to become a huge fan later on after hearing Wizard, Todd, Liars, and the first Utopia record. It broadened my horizons too; at the time I was only really into prog-rock mostly, and hearing Todd's music opened my eyes/ears to a lot of other genres and artists.

[aith01]

Like a double shot of this? :D


https://youtu.be/4cTO5RbFkaM

Heck yes! I love that song. :)



The only song I really actually like off The Individualist. Actually, I love it! It’s very quintessentially Todd. In spite of the very “of its time” production, the sound is very “four-man Utopia.” Chords and melodies to die for! I’m sure the fact that I am a bit of a coffee fiend helped more than a little towards me connecting with this song.

Being a coffee drinker myself might explain some of my fondness for that track too. :lol I actually like most of The Individualist. I think that "The Ultimate Crime" and "Beloved Infidel" are beautiful songs. "Temporary Sanity" is probably my favorite from that album though. That ending "We must be crazy" section gets me every time.

[aith01]

I like Global!

I like Global too, possibly a little more than State -- although that depends on the day probably. :D

In terms of late-career Rundgren, I don't think anything he's done has topped Liars for me. That one is a masterpiece in my book.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

I never heard the Individualist before. It's not bad. There's two rap songs on it which I could do without. Otherwise, me likey! I thought it was another "No World Order" which I didn't much care for.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

I never heard the Individualist before. It's not bad. There's two rap songs on it which I could do without. Otherwise, me likey! I thought it was another "No World Order" which I didn't much care for. Most of my Todd collection is on vinyl. Some titles, like Initiation, suffer from having too much music crammed onto the LP which reduces the dynamic range and makes 'em sound thin. Does anybody know if the CD versions improve this with remastering?

[aith01]

I never heard the Individualist before. It's not bad. There's two rap songs on it which I could do without. Otherwise, me likey! I thought it was another "No World Order" which I didn't much care for.

Yeah, I'm quite fond of The Individualist. It is a fair bit different from No World Order (which I like some of, but it's a much harder listen for me than most of his stuff).



Does anybody know if the CD versions improve this with remastering?

From what I understand, the CD versions do improve the sonics compared to the vinyl. I've got a few different versions of the CD Initiation, and they all sound pretty good to me.

[JAMOOL]

for me upgrading to a microline stylus helped those albums dramatically, since the inner-groove distortion is pretty noticeable on Wizard, the Utopia s/t, and Initiation. now I don't really hear it at all. fwiw I don't think the CDs are too different, I think Todd mastered his albums that way on purpose, knowing he was stuffing 30+ minutes on a side. amusingly Side 2 of Initiation (which is 36 minutes!) doesn't sound too bad, because the music itself is all synth & drum machine stuff, it's not really dynamic enough where you actually hear the distortion.

I dig The Individualist too - possibly the only Todd album worth getting between Nearly Human and Liars. For me "If Not Now, When" is the best track, maybe because it reminds me so much of They Might be Giants? The chord changes seem very inspired by John Linnell. fwiw I think his 21st Century albums have been fine, just wish he'd drop the one-man production jobs because they sound pretty thin & boxed up to me. as though he's just using a bunch of stock samples. particularly Arena, which sounds like it would've worked really well with a full band but for some reason it's all canned and synthetic sounds. I guess that's why the more electronic-oriented albums like Liars and State work best for me. There's one he did with two European electronic artists called Runddans which I think is well worth checking out too. Amusingly that's a 40 minute album released on 2 LPs (played at 45), so the exact opposite of what he was doing in the 70s :)

[Derk]

I didn't say "ugly" head!

I think Initiation could have been near perfect if he'd have ditched side 2 and done another song or two - or even a cover - which would have made it a normal album length. But then again, I know a lot of people who prefer the experimentation of side 2, so what do I know? I really think of Utopia as the Mk2 band TBH. The album Utopia was just a bunch of guys making incredible music, and a completely different beast. No pop aspirations there. But that was one of my all time faves when it came out and a benchmark for a lot of what came afterwards for a while. What I appreciated most about Todd was his mixing genres - sometimes in the same song. Common now, but completely unheard of back then. Something/Anything shouldn't have been anything I liked as a teen, but it broadened my horizons.

Utopia definitely got the short shrift with critics, which is a shame. Starting with Oops and especially Swing, they were firing on all cylinders. I do think there was some contractual issues around the time of Utopia, but I can't remember what it was. That's probably my least favorite from that period. And some real gems have fallen through the cracks as time has passed. Oblivion and POV are all but forgotten. Luckily, I never got rid of my LP collection (started in 1968), so no worries as far as hunting anything down that's out of print!



The first piece of side 2 on Initiation is great. If that had been added to the tracks of side 1 then it would have made a fantastic shorter album.

[Polypet]

So glad you got to take in a live Todd show! He was in really good voice and the band was kickin!

Great to meet you as well!!

Here's a bit of the show-


https://youtu.be/tMXt_iD1V94


https://youtu.be/5o5cRx-49Wk


https://youtu.be/-r_c8UGk65g

You lucky guys. That would be a dream scenario for me, to meet Sean AT a Todd show. Damn. Nicely done, man ;) :up


Was Todd performing any of his recent singles? Have to say I haven’t enjoyed them, but wondering if they work better live.

I've seen him play a lot of his new stuff - a lot of which is better than may seem at first blush - live he kills it. Seriously. I had a new appreciation for those albums after seeing the tour right before STATE came out. Some beautiful and rocking stuff.


With the tour name having "The Individualist" in the title, I was expecting to hear some tunes from that album -- would've been happy if they played some, but honestly I'd have been happy with just about anything. :lol The set list was really enjoyable, and had some inclusions I did not expect at all.

That latter half of AWATS was so much fun.

The Individualist is one my favourites of his, actually. It's excellent. And, all kidding aside, his rap has serious flow. It's uniquely his. As one who does appreciate good rap, his is pretty good. YMMV, of course ;)

But all of his albums have something to recommend on them. The Arena tour was so loud i couldn't appreciate the tunes, largely pastiches. But when i got the album, the song Courage knocked me out. So beautiful. i couldn't hear it live :lol I've come to really like that one too.

Always on the lookout for something new and original. I love that about him.

[Sunlight Caller]

Glad that you still have your LP collection though! That helps a lot, not having to try tracking down stuff that might be hard to find now. :D I'm still working on building up my Todd/Utopia vinyl collection (even though I've got them all on CD already and should probably be more wise with my money...)

I moved house a week ago and I finally have my vinyl all in the same room as me again, and pulling out those 70’s Todd albums has been a joy. Yes I too have them all on CD, but it’s like meeting old friends after a long layoff.

Your Todd gig looked so great, I think it’s the same backing band as I saw him with in London a few years back, which was a great show too. I hope he comes back here again.

I found the coloured vinyl box set of his collected singles, the one with your avatar image, I had forgotten I bought that a few record store days ago.

[aith01]

The Individualist is one my favourites of his, actually. It's excellent. And, all kidding aside, his rap has serious flow. It's uniquely his. As one who does appreciate good rap, his is pretty good. YMMV, of course ;)

But all of his albums have something to recommend on them. The Arena tour was so loud i couldn't appreciate the tunes, largely pastiches. But when i got the album, the song Courage knocked me out. So beautiful. i couldn't hear it live :lol I've come to really like that one too.

I absolutely love The Individualist. I even like his rapping. Like you said, it's uniquely his and it flows. I think the songs "Beloved Infidel" and "Temporary Sanity" are brilliant, but it's really a solid album front-to-back.

Arena is another album of his that I really liked -- in fact it helped reintroduce me to his music. "Courage" is a beautiful tune, though I can imagine it might have been harder to appreciate live if it was played really loud. :lol



Always on the lookout for something new and original. I love that about him.

Same here. :D



I moved house a week ago and I finally have my vinyl all in the same room as me again, and pulling out those 70’s Todd albums has been a joy. Yes I too have them all on CD, but it’s like meeting old friends after a long layoff.

Your Todd gig looked so great, I think it’s the same backing band as I saw him with in London a few years back, which was a great show too. I hope he comes back here again.

It can be a great feeling to get reacquainted with old favorites.

His backing band was fantastic; I'm glad you got to see him with such a good group of musicians too. Really put on a great show and the sound quality was just top-notch. Hopefully we'll get to catch another Todd show in the future. He seems to rarely sit still for long. ;)



I found the coloured vinyl box set of his collected singles, the one with your avatar image, I had forgotten I bought that a few record store days ago.

I've got that one too! It's a pretty nice set, and it's cool to have so many of those songs all together in one box. Until now, I'd never realized that there was a version of "Wolfman Jack" that actually had Wolfman Jack on it. :lol I prefer the original, but it's still cool to hear the alternate version too.

[JAMOOL]

I've seen him play a lot of his new stuff - a lot of which is better than may seem at first blush - live he kills it. Seriously. I had a new appreciation for those albums after seeing the tour right before STATE came out. Some beautiful and rocking stuff.


That's what's so frustrating about 21st Century Todd to me. His new material is actually quite good, and he's obviously still in fine form vocally and musically. But he needs to bring in some outside help!!

[Polypet]

It's just a synth freak out. It's a test of patience, though some folks like it. Todd was beyond worrying about proving anything at that point. He's a guy that seemed to deliberateley sabotage his career at every turn by doing what he pleased instead of looking at the previous album's success and trying to do more of the same. Had he done that after Something/Anything he could have been a household name, but he had other plans and I am glad he did.

Give Marlene some time, it's a beatiful little tune....

One of my favourites - "i'm depending on you now, Marlene....." - simple, direct and lovely ;)

[carlmarx38]

This may be posted already, but Todd's Rock Hall Induction from last week :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iMrS8O_c_g

[carlmarx38]

Love the ending to the video with his comment...."If nominated, I will not Run, and if Elected I will not serve !"

[carlmarx38]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7E9lefllQ4

[Victorian Squid]

You lucky guys. That would be a dream scenario for me, to meet Sean AT a Todd show. Damn. Nicely done, man ;) :up

I've seen him play a lot of his new stuff - a lot of which is better than may seem at first blush - live he kills it. Seriously. I had a new appreciation for those albums after seeing the tour right before STATE came out. Some beautiful and rocking stuff.

TBH, that's sort of summed Todd up for decades. Similar to the way people said you gotta see the Dead live, their studio efforts don't cut it, (IMO they didn't impress me live - ever). In Todd's case it actually seemed to be the truth. I think a lot of it was he got so meticulous and disciplined in the studio, he would tend to overthink his own work after Todd, and that of Utopia. Some of it comes off as even a bit sterile. When I finally got to see them live it was already 1977, and it was the Ra tour. I was absolutely blown away by the band's prowess, they took that album - which honestly even comes off as a bit anemic - to the stratosphere. They were having an absolute blast, no doubt the chemistry made a huge difference. I came away with an entirely new respect for Ra and and Utopia in general. Even Singring was a different song live. You can also tell a band's chops when everything is falling apart around them - which it was. By the time they hit Freedom fighters, the crowd was berserk. I never thought the original Utopia could have been improved on - I was so wrong. Just 4 guys making all that racket.

I think the comment about outside help is a good one, but I just don't see Todd ever letting somebody else produce his stuff. And TBH, I can't think of who he'd work with that would "get it". He's brought the best out countless bands, but never captures the excitement of his own full potential. Just see him live and enjoy it while you still can. BTW, Prairie Prince is one of the best drummers working today, and he's still got it. I was a fan from the first time I saw the Tubes in 1975, I can see why Todd tapped his services after Remote Control.

[edit] Oh, and back then, I expected to see banks of keyboards to be impressed (pun intended). I wasn't the only person who sniggered when Powell came out with just that one keyboard hanging around his neck. Yeah, that lasted all of about a minute.

[Sunlight Caller]

I found an old Utopia DVD when I was unpacking boxes the other day (I’ve just moved house). It was live at The Royal Oak Detroit in ‘81. It’s pretty dated visually and only short, but it was great to see the four piece band looking young and fresh. I would love to see a Ra show, if such exists on DVD. It was Ra that really converted me back in the day, I remember a slot on OGWT, they showed some live footage with the pyramid, and I was sold. The BBC broadcast a Ra show on the radio, and I taped it and listened for years until the tape came to a chewed up end, very sad!

I don’t have a lot of visual Todd in my collection, so please share any of your favourite DVD’s for me to explore.

[aith01]

TBH, that's sort of summed Todd up for decades. Similar to the way people said you gotta see the Dead live, their studio efforts don't cut it, (IMO they didn't impress me live - ever). In Todd's case it actually seemed to be the truth. I think a lot of it was he got so meticulous and disciplined in the studio, he would tend to overthink his own work after Todd, and that of Utopia.

Hmm... I never had a problem with his studio work, nor felt that it didn't represent his full potential. Since I didn't even get to see him live until over 15 years after discovering his music and listening to him. The studio stuff is what made me into a fan; seeing him in concert was just the icing on the cake for me. :)

[markwoll]

His lives shows surprised me with their energy and quality.
He's not coasting.

[aith01]

His lives shows surprised me with their energy and quality.
He's not coasting.

Definitely. :up

The man has a huge back catalog of his own music to draw from, and he still delivers in concert. He and the whole band impressed the heck out of me when I saw them.

[Polypet]

Hmm... I never had a problem with his studio work, nor felt that it didn't represent his full potential. Since I didn't even get to see him live until over 15 years after discovering his music and listening to him. The studio stuff is what made me into a fan; seeing him in concert was just the icing on the cake for me. :)

Yeah, i've seen him live since early days and he was always fun but really his recordings are my favourite things. He just has a wonderful way with record making, imho ymmy etc.

[JKL2000]

I too have always enjoyed Todd's studio albums a lot. I think his studio output has been somewhat similar to Neil Young's in that Todd has a lot of very solid and popular studio albums, and then a bunch or more experimental albums, BUT Todd's experimental albums are generally more successful than Neil's. As a couple of examples, A Capella and No World Order - both experimental albums very different from all others, but both great albums, IMO.

[Polypet]

I too have always enjoyed Todd's studio albums a lot. I think his studio output has been somewhat similar to Neil Young's in that Todd has a lot of very solid and popular studio albums, and then a bunch or more experimental albums, BUT Todd's experimental albums are generally more successful than Neil's. As a couple of examples, A Capella and No World Order - both experimental albums very different from all others, but both great albums, IMO.

Yep, good analogy. I love Neil for at least doing that even when things are less successful, the effort is worthy, i think :)

[unclemeat]

Touch of Ra


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwKLvNHP0ug

[JKL2000]

^ With Steve Vai. Pretty cool.

[JAMOOL]

not really sure what to make of the album, since it's mostly outtakes from other artists it's no surprise that some of the songs just kinda suck. but there are definitely some real great ones on there as well. so I guess it's kinda like all of Todd's albums after Nearly Human.

[JKL2000]

not really sure what to make of the album, since it's mostly outtakes from other artists it's no surprise that some of the songs just kinda suck. but there are definitely some real great ones on there as well. so I guess it's kinda like all of Todd's albums after Nearly Human.

When you say 'outtakes,' what do you mean? Collaborations with, right? That's what I assumed they are. I agree, it seems to be a mixed bag. I haven't listened to all the songs yet, or at all in sequence, which I need to do. But I listened to the singles as they were released, and I really don't like the song with Sparks, so there's that.

I'm sporadic with my Todd fandom - there are whole albums I've never listened to, but most of his catalog I know really well.

[aith01]

not really sure what to make of the album, since it's mostly outtakes from other artists it's no surprise that some of the songs just kinda suck. but there are definitely some real great ones on there as well. so I guess it's kinda like all of Todd's albums after Nearly Human.

They're not "outtakes", they're just song ideas or demos that other artists had not finished yet. The one from Neil Finn was just a barebones demo (with vocals and a synth, nothing else) that he sent to Rundgren, who then finished it out and arranged it into the final form. Whereas the Lemon Twigs song (one of the best on the record IMO) was one that was almost a complete song by the time they sent it to Todd, and they wrote it with him in mind. Rivers Cuomo sent Rundgren several song ideas he had been working on, and Rundgren finally picked the one that turned into "Down With the Ship".



When you say 'outtakes,' what do you mean? Collaborations with, right? That's what I assumed they are. I agree, it seems to be a mixed bag. I haven't listened to all the songs yet, or at all in sequence, which I need to do. But I listened to the singles as they were released, and I really don't like the song with Sparks, so there's that.

I'm sporadic with my Todd fandom - there are whole albums I've never listened to, but most of his catalog I know really well.

In essence, Space Force is like a combination of a Todd solo album and his work as a producer for other musicians. I think it's his best since Liars. There are some songs where he contributed more than on others, but on the whole it sounds a lot more fresh than any of his work in the past decade or more IMO. One of the reasons he said he did it this way (with focus on actual collaboration using the songwriting ideas of other artists) was because he felt like he had been in an echo chamber by only working on his own for the last several years. I'm paraphrasing of course. ;)

I don't think any of the songs outright "suck" though. The only one that doesn't move me much still is "Espionage", which was originally intended for White Knight but Narcy had not finished his part in time to make it onto that record.

And I actually really like "Your Fandango", I think it's great. :lol It's goofy in the same vein as things like "Frogs" or "Emperor of the Highway" -- I like it much more than the latter, but not as much as the former.

[Enidi]

For many years Todd Rundgren was influenced by Laura Nyro. Although she is considered a influential writer of Pop Music..she was weird or a bit different than other writers of her time. "Captain For Dark Mornings " was an unusual song and the essence of that style of writing can be spotted throughout several Todd Rundgren albums.

Even on the more Space Rock Progressive music of Rundgren such as "Treatise On Cosmic Fire" from Initiation her Nyro's style of chord voicing can be heard at the intro of that strange piece and throughout...however Rundgren was taking her ideas and doing something else with them. Perhaps fitting her ideas more into a Prog style.

I've been listening to Laura Nyro since the 60s. I don't expect Prog fans to be particularly interested in her music. The concept was that she was unusual and influenced artists to expand further with her dark and depressing melancholy ideas. The similarities between Nyro and Rundgren are ridiculous, but nevertheless interesting.

[mkeneally]

Todd even sang a song to Laura on his debut album. She was certainly an influence on him, understandably (she was fantastic).

[aith01]

Todd even sang a song to Laura on his debut album. She was certainly an influence on him, understandably (she was fantastic).

Yeah, she was! I've got her album Eli and the Thirteenth Confession, which has some excellent stuff on it. I need to hear more of her music.

[Progbear]

When you say 'outtakes,' what do you mean? Collaborations with, right? That's what I assumed they are. I agree, it seems to be a mixed bag. I haven't listened to all the songs yet, or at all in sequence, which I need to do. But I listened to the singles as they were released, and I really don't like the song with Sparks, so there's that.

I'm sporadic with my Todd fandom - there are whole albums I've never listened to, but most of his catalog I know really well.

I jumped ship when he did With a Twist, which suggested he was totally bereft of fresh ideas. Hearing him do "I Hate My Frickin' ISP" sort of cemented that perception. But people really seem to like Liars, so maybe I should give Todd after the whole Patronet debacle a second chance.

[aith01]

I jumped ship when he did With a Twist, which suggested he was totally bereft of fresh ideas. Hearing him do "I Hate My Frickin' ISP" sort of cemented that perception. But people really seem to like Liars, so maybe I should give Todd after the whole Patronet debacle a second chance.

If you jumped ship back then, you have seriously missed out.

[JKL2000]

Was New World Order before or after With a Twist? Because that's a great album. I didn't even bother with With a Twist, but there was still more good material from Todd after that.

[arturs]

I've seen him play a lot of his new stuff - a lot of which is better than may seem at first blush - live he kills it. Seriously. I had a new appreciation for those albums after seeing the tour right before STATE came out. Some beautiful and rocking stuff.



I wish he would have done some of his new stuff when I saw him this past summer. He called it the "truly unpredictable" tour and I thought that meant it would be a lot of his new stuff and deep cuts. Instead it was over 50% cover songs which were not really very good. A falsetto version of "Brand New Key" ugggh... Some Lorne Greene song. I kid you not. The only cover song that he really nailed was Incense and Peppermints which makes sense because it sounds a lot like the Nazz. Some lady finally stood up and yelled "Todd we came here for YOU!"

[Progbear]

Was New World Order before or after With a Twist? Because that's a great album. I didn't even bother with With a Twist, but there was still more good material from Todd after that.

Before. I saw him on that tour, it was a truly solo show on a weird pedestal thing, in the basement of the Fairmont Hotel in SF. Pretty good show, but the other two shows I saw (in support of Nearly Human and 2nd Wind) were better. I prefer a full band experience, but this was cool and different, and it's always a joy just to see Todd.

[JKL2000]

I WISH I'd gone to the New World Order tour! It sounded cool. I saw Todd on both the Nearly Human and 2nd Wind tours too. Good shows - I really like both albums.

[Sunlight Caller]

I only started listening to Laura Nyro because of Todd. I am no expert but do enjoy what I have heard of her early albums. I bought a double live vinyl on this years Record Store Day, and it's really good, it's called "Trees of the Ages - Live in Japan" and covers a good selection of her songs.

[aith01]

Was New World Order [..] that's a great album. I didn't even bother with With a Twist, but there was still more good material from Todd after that.

Agreed. :up

And I never bothered with With a Twist either. :lol



I WISH I'd gone to the New World Order tour! It sounded cool. I saw Todd on both the Nearly Human and 2nd Wind tours too. Good shows - I really like both albums.

Yeah, I really like both of those albums too. And I wish I had been old enough at the time to go see Todd on those tours... :(

[the winter tree]

A friend of mine, Rob Sabino, played keyboards on the 2nd Wind tour. We went back stage but there was a mob of people around Todd so I didn't meet him.

[Sean]

Ever seen this? Second Wind tour...


https://youtu.be/-ghpAV1e99c

[Polypet]

You say that like it's a bad thing. :lol If by Utopia Mk2 you mean the 4-man lineup with Sulton, Powell, and Wilcox, that is my favorite version of the band (I love all of their records, and even scored a near-mint copy of Oblivion on vinyl at my local record store recently). And I love the first side of Initiation as well, precisely because of how well it melds Todd's more experimental ambitions with his soul/pop/rock influences.

Oblivion :up

[Progbear]

My copy of Oblivion was a terrible vinyl pressing. Popped and skipped right out of the shrink wrap.

[aith01]

My copy of Oblivion was a terrible vinyl pressing. Popped and skipped right out of the shrink wrap.

That sucks. I hate when that happens. :(

[aith01]

Oblivion :up

Man, I absolutely love that album. :heart :)

[Plasmatopia]

Man, I absolutely love that album. :heart :)

Me too. No other Utopia album sounds like it!

[JKL2000]

Which one is Oblivion? I used to own most Todd and Utopia albums on vinyl then CD, then sold off most of the CDs. Is Oblivion the one with a black & white cover?

[Guitarplyrjvb]

It's the all black one. Todd's "Smell the Glove".

[JAMOOL]

I only saw Todd once, about 4 years ago. I didn't know any of his records past Nearly Human then and about 90% of the setlist was new to me (the only things I recognized were "Secret Society" and the encore of "Hello Its Me" and "Just One Victory"). I thought it was really great. Hearing "God Said" for the first time at that show is probably something I'll always remember - it was stunning. I later heard all the records and was kind of disappointed - yeah, they're alright, but all this stuff was so much more exciting live, without the canned samples and paper-thin rhythms. Particularly the Arena album - how can you make a down n' dirty arena rock album and leave all the sequenced demo bits in? Oh well. Liars and State are both pretty great (the former particularly, when they reissuing that one??). I had another listen to Space Force and thought it was mostly good. Mainly because it actually sounds like a studio record and not just something he cobbled together on his PC. The Lemon Twigs song is particularly great. Could've fooled me into thinking this was something left of of Something/Anything.