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View Full Version : Plasma vs. LCD, and best audio



JKL2000
11-18-2012, 02:29 PM
Ok, since this is the WOT forum, I think it's ok to ask one quick a/v question:

I need to get a new large-screen TV, and when I search around I see lots of LCD units but don't seem to seem any plasma units. Has LCD won the war or something? I'm hoping to find something that's a) Wi-Fi ready (AKA Smart, I guess), and that also has good sound from the speakers as for the time being at least, the speakers in the TV will be the sole speakers (and I'll be using this to watch concert DVDs, etc. and might like eventually to incorporate it into a 5.1 setup.

So basically, are Plasma still better than LCDs picture-wise (best blacks, etc.) or is plasma on the way out, and what units in general have the best speakers (by manufacturer or specific units).

If anyone wants to recommend specific models or manufacturers, please do. Thanks.

Jay G
11-18-2012, 04:09 PM
Plasma is not dead. Best TV ever is still a Plasma, the Pioneer Elite Kuro. The only LCD that can compete is the Sharp Elite which is the only LED LCD that does whole screen backlighting as opposed to just edge. This TV, though LED LCD, does incorporate many of the finer aspects of the Kuro (Sharp bought many of the trade secrets/technology that Pioneer did not sell to Panasonic) thus why it is 5k-6k. Now with all of that beings said, everything is really a personal preference. LCD's are better in bright lit rooms but can't compare to the best Plasma blacks or viewing angle. I have both technologies as well as DLP and find them all to be fairly good with the differences being neglegible. Of all of the them though my favorite is my new Panasonic VT series Plasma. Thing is killer. If you go with LCD be sure to not get anything lower than 120 refresh rate especially is you watch a lot of action stuff or sports.

As for sound I have never seen any of these TV with decent sound. The use very low powered cheap speakers that can't even be used as a center channel. I could not recommend any model as having better sound than others. My old Sony LCD Projection (great 768P technology TV that eventually died last year) did have decent sound but my latest Plasma is horrid.

Mikhael
11-19-2012, 01:20 PM
Why do I see lines in Plasma TVs that I never see in LCDS, then? What are those lines?

Jerjo
11-19-2012, 01:25 PM
Just got a plasma Panasonic end of this summer and I love it. The only channel I get lines on is one that the cable company says is their fault. The TV is best in a dark room or one where you can shut out the sunlight. The picture off Blu-ray DVDs is incredible. First thing I played was the battle in Moria on The Fellowship of the Ring and it damn near looked 3D. I just ordered the new Blu-ray of Lawrence of Arabia with the promise that the desert will look so gorgeous you can feel the heat. And HD sports are jaw-dropping. My wife will actually sit through baseball and football now just because it looks so much better.

MudShark22
11-19-2012, 02:01 PM
I too recently bought a new 50" panasonic plasma. This is my third panasonic plasma...nothing wrong with the 1st two; still using 'em in the basement even after 8 years!

One's long term usage will depend on how one adjusts the settings (especially brightness and contrast) and the total hours of video being watched.

Firth
11-19-2012, 03:23 PM
Don't buy a TV now if you can wait. LED/LCD is on the verge of being revolutionized with quantum dot tech. QDs will make LED/LCDs extremely efficient and better plasma in color rendition, and the tech is inexpensive. But for now, only Laser DLP can beat plasma in color. Not all plasma is good, lower end Panasonics are not good. Middle to 3D plasmas from Panasonic are great, but they don't put out the light that LED/LCDs do and therefore require a darker room. LED/LCDs seem artificial to me, whereas plasma appears more natural. If one wants to see how good color TV can get, go see the Mitsubishi Laservue set, it covers more of the color spectrum and a black light will look like a true black light, not blue. That's how good QD will be. People have touted AMOLED or OLED, but the price is too high compared to QD. QD can use efficient blue LED backlighting to stimulate quantum dots which render pure colors across the full visible spectrum.

mozo-pg
11-19-2012, 05:55 PM
I've got a 50 inch Pannasonic Viera that is a Plasma. I just picked up a 70 inch Sharp LCD. The LCD blows the Plasma out of the water.

Klonk
11-19-2012, 06:56 PM
I prefer Plasma. I watch TV in a dark area where there's no glare and it's flawless. Especially when it comes to fast action and sports where in my experience Plasma dominates...no blur. Blacks are definitely better. Blu Ray on Plasma is the cats testicles too. I have a 50" Panny and 51" Samsung on its way :D In the early stages you have to be careful of 'burn in' though. They say to avoid still images (gaming, news shows with tickers, pausing etc) for the first 50-100 hours. This has never been a problem for me.

For rooms with more light or if you watch a lot of TV in the day, I'd go with LED/LCD. They are brighter.

Both Plasma and LED/LCD have great TV's. The amount of light in your watching area should be seriously considered in your decision.

As far as sound goes, in my opinion you're much better off with external speakers.

mozo-pg
11-19-2012, 07:19 PM
I should mention that Panasonic is about 6 years old whereas the Sharp is brand new - this might explain the different in picture quality.

Firth
11-19-2012, 08:01 PM
I should mention that Panasonic is about 6 years old whereas the Sharp is branch new - this might explain the different in picture quality.

Not to mention that the Sharp Aquos had to create a yellow pixel in order to compete with plasma on color. If you have a Panasonic from 6 years ago, that is a lifetime for Panasonic. 3 years ago they intoduced plasma displays that were so good and low cost, that Pioneer kicked the bucket on the Kuro. I've seen the Sharp 70 inch Aquos and it is the best LCD I've seen in a bar. However, it's very expensive compared to a 50" plasma 3D set now. Prices on excellent plasmas are very affordable to the 240 Hz LED/LCD displays that are closer in quality. Plasma is effectively 600 - 800 Hz scan rate and if you see artifacts with motion in sports it's the broadcast, not the TV.

Greg
11-20-2012, 11:07 AM
...Sharp Elite which is the only LED LCD....

LED and LCD are two completely different technologies.

LED = [L]ight [E]mitting [D]iode
LCD = [L]iquid [C]rystal [D]isplay

The LCD tech in televisions is similar to the LCD tech in laptop computer and desktop flat panel displays. It is much older, and Plasma will always produce better quality images than LCD.

LED is brand new in the television market (within the last two years) and can compete fairly well with plasma. Although, it's been said earlier that it is an entirely personal preference.

Plasma displays will degrade faster than LED displays, but that also depends on the quality of manufacture.

End of last year I bought a Samsung UN46D6300 1080p after comparing the image quality of a lot of brands/models in the $1k - $1.5k price range, and this set consistently impressed me. I looked at some plasma televisions, but there was nothing to push me toward plasma that stood out, and life expectancy was in favour of the LEDs.

Another consideration that may sway you is if you plan to connect a video game to the set. Plasma has been notoriously sensitive to prolonged video game use. LCD and LED will not be affected in the same way.

If you want good sound, you will need to get an external sound system. None of them have "exceptional" internal speaker systems.

JKL2000
11-20-2012, 11:15 AM
I just got rid of a Plasma screen that had a great picture and as far as I could tell, over about five years of use it never degraded. It was a Panasonic professional plasma screen, so it had an awesome picture. It still worked fine, but had a couple of drawbacks - no speakers or tuner built in, and no HDMI connectors. Also it was heavy as hell, and quite thick so I need to upgrade to something more modern. For now we're using a little LCD TV with a built in DVD player.

JKL2000
11-20-2012, 02:24 PM
LED and LCD are two completely different technologies.

LED = [L]ight [E]mitting [D]iode
LCD = [L]iquid [C]rystal [D]isplay

Apparently there IS something called LED LCD technology. Something about the LEDs being used for backlighting.

WHORG
11-20-2012, 02:43 PM
We have a 50" (?) Samsung plasma that's going on 5 years old . . . still a superb experience. I was careful with "burn in" issues the first 6 months, scrubbing the screen with their digital tools - never had an issue to mention. We watch our programming mostly at night - but the boy does XBox pretty much anytime he can access the system.

The only downside I can see with plasma is the weight and heat output -

We will upgrade at somepoint I'm sure - but what we now have will be just fine until then.

Firth
11-20-2012, 07:41 PM
LED and LCD are two completely different technologies.

LED = [L]ight [E]mitting [D]iode
LCD = [L]iquid [C]rystal [D]isplay

The LCD tech in televisions is similar to the LCD tech in laptop computer and desktop flat panel displays. It is much older, and Plasma will always produce better quality images than LCD.

LED is brand new in the television market (within the last two years) and can compete fairly well with plasma. Although, it's been said earlier that it is an entirely personal preference.

Plasma displays will degrade faster than LED displays, but that also depends on the quality of manufacture.


LED TVs are actually LCD TVs which use LEDs as the backlighting source. They do have superior picture quality compared to LCD, but the big advantage is power consumption for large sets. While it is true that Plasmas degrade faster, they have improved since Panasonic designed new panels 2 years ago. Plasma set now have features which minimize burn in from video games. Note that by the time one uses up the new 100000 hour life of a plasma TV (11.4 years @24 hours a day), one will be buying extraordinary TV technology. When the LED sets go quantum dot next year, people who bought this year will wish they had weighted. The new QD LED sets :

Color range: Nanocrystal displays should be able to yield a greater portion of the visible spectrum than current technologies. QD Vision calculates as much as 30% more of the visible spectrum would be available using QDs in a QD-LED vs. a CRT TV.
Low power consumption: QD Vision estimates its nanocrystal displays could use 30 to 50% less electrical power than an LCD, in large part because nanocrystal displays don't need a backlight.
Brightness: 50~100 times brighter than CRT and LCD displays ~40,000 cd/m2
Added flexibility: QDs are soluble in both aqueous and non-aqueous solvents, which provides for printable and flexible displays of all sizes, including large area TVs
Improved lifetime: QDs are inorganic, which can give the potential for improved lifetimes when compared to alternative OLED technologies. However, since many parts of QD-LED are made of organic materials, further development is required to improve the functional lifetime.
Other advantages include better saturated green, manufacture ability on polymers, thin display, same material used to generate difference colors, and higher resolution.

Jay G
11-20-2012, 08:17 PM
Apparently there IS something called LED LCD technology. Something about the LEDs being used for backlighting.


Yes, all LEDs are LCD technology but not all LCDs use LED technology. LED is just delivery method for the light Vs light panels and older projection LCDs which used ultra high output bulbs similar to DLPs.

rapidfirerob
11-20-2012, 10:22 PM
We have a Panasonic Plasma that is a year old or so and heat is not an issue. I believe they solved that at some point. We also have a Vizio LCD in the bedroom. Both look quite good, though different. I totally agree on internal speakers, not that great. Like everything in life, it depends on what your preferences are, and your budget of course. Ours was not large, so we don't have very expensive TVs. I'm using Radio Shack Minimus 7s for the bedroom surround, except center channel.

JKL2000
11-21-2012, 08:17 AM
We have a Panasonic Plasma that is a year old or so and heat is not an issue. I believe they solved that at some point. We also have a Vizio LCD in the bedroom. Both look quite good, though different. I totally agree on internal speakers, not that great. Like everything in life, it depends on what your preferences are, and your budget of course. Ours was not large, so we don't have very expensive TVs. I'm using Radio Shack Minimus 7s for the bedroom surround, except center channel.

What do you use for the center channel?

Oh, and by the way - bedroom surround, eh? Interesting... "Cool, it sounds like we're doing it inside 'Moving Pictures!'"

Firth
11-21-2012, 09:27 AM
This new QDEF technology for LCD/LED TVs will get introduced in production TVs very soon. This is a low cost way to dramatically improve the color and performance of of LCD/LED displays. While this is not the ultimate in what will happen in the next few years, it will probably put the final nail in plasma:

http://optics.org/news/3/6/9

Greg
11-21-2012, 11:18 AM
Apparently there IS something called LED LCD technology. Something about the LEDs being used for backlighting.


LED TVs are actually LCD TVs which use LEDs as the backlighting source. They do have superior picture quality compared to LCD, but the big advantage is power consumption for large sets.


Yes, all LEDs are LCD technology but not all LCDs use LED technology. LED is just delivery method for the light Vs light panels and older projection LCDs which used ultra high output bulbs similar to DLPs.

Shit. Apparently, I am way wrong on this one. And, it annoys me that despite all the research I did when I was in the market, last year, I didn't find one reference to this.

As well, it seems that my Samsung is [now] spec'd as an "LED-backlit" LCD, which I didn't find in the specs on the Samsung site, last year.

But, the Samsung I bought impressed me more than the plasmas I looked at which, for some odd reason, gave me a strange "oily" appearance--plasma screens have always looked that way to me, and I don't know why.

Firth
11-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Shit. Apparently, I am way wrong on this one. And, it annoys me that despite all the research I did when I was in the market, last year, I didn't find one reference to this.

As well, it seems that my Samsung is [now] spec'd as an "LED-backlit" LCD, which I didn't find in the specs on the Samsung site, last year.

But, the Samsung I bought impressed me more than the plasmas I looked at which, for some odd reason, gave me a strange "oily" appearance--plasma screens have always looked that way to me, and I don't know why.

You are not completely wrong on LED, there is OLED and AMOLED, for which LG and Samsung have demoed some sets. However, expensive and more work needs to be done to get the lifetime up. QDLED is likely to be the winner because the materials last a long time and are inexpensive.

As to reflective issue with plasma, panasonic also solved that.

The Silent Man
11-21-2012, 07:43 PM
LED and LCD are two completely different technologies.

Another consideration that may sway you is if you plan to connect a video game to the set. Plasma has been notoriously sensitive to prolonged video game use. LCD and LED will not be affected in the same way.

If you want good sound, you will need to get an external sound system. None of them have "exceptional" internal speaker systems.

Both of these are points I was going to raise. The former is the main factor which has always led me away from plasma.

You absolutely NEED external 5.1 sound (7.1 isn't worth the extra IMO). Going back to TV built-in sound is impossible.

I have an Onkyo system with Tannoy speakers, and it's excellent

JKL2000
11-23-2012, 10:10 AM
I'm now planning on going with this plasma screen: Panasonic VIERA TC-P50GT50 50-Inch 1080p 600Hz Full HD 3D Plasma TV (I forget what the VT has over the GT, but I don't think it's worth the extra $1000+.)

BUT, I was also planning on getting one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players that is ready for Netflix On Demand, etc. (so, wi-fi ready). Is there any reason I'd need both the TV and Blu-Ray player to have wi-fi, and if not, is it preferable for one to be over the other? Probably I'd be going with an Oppo anyway, so maybe better to get a TV that doesn't have wi-wi, and save some money there?

Of course, another possibility is getting an inexpensive PC and connecting that to the TV, in which case I guess I don't need either the TV or Oppo to have wi-fi, but I would want a TV with a PC connection port.

Greg
11-23-2012, 12:16 PM
BUT, I was also planning on getting one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players that is ready for Netflix On Demand, etc. (so, wi-fi ready). Is there any reason I'd need both the TV and Blu-Ray player to have wi-fi, and if not, is it preferable for one to be over the other?

Of course, another possibility is getting an inexpensive PC and connecting that to the TV, in which case I guess I don't need either the TV or Oppo to have wi-fi, but I would want a TV with a PC connection port.

I think it all depends on which web interface is better as the deciding factor.

I have to say that web searches, including YouTube on my Samsung with SmartTV is a pain in the arse. They do sell a bluetooth QWERTY keyboard for the Samsung sets, but I haven't picked it up, yet.

The PC connection will certainly offer more flexibility, and keyboard entry will be far easier. Get a laptop with an HDMI output--don't bother with a "PC" connection as that a 15-pin D-sub connector that doesn't carry audio. You would need a separate audio connection. However, the resolution displayed on the television set will depend entirely on the applications and video driver you get on the PC.

If you have the ability to test drive both the TV and the Blue-Ray player for their web interfaces, that might help the decision.

Firth
11-23-2012, 01:49 PM
I went with a PS3 as bluray and wifi internet connection device for Netflix etc. The PS3 is not the only option now. The Oppo may give some audio advantages, but I bought a $99 dollar Pioneer DVD/SACD player that streams everything on HDMI to my Pioneer receiver which has state of the art 5.1 digital signal processing for channel calibration (32 bit 192 KHz sample rate).

Jay G
11-23-2012, 04:26 PM
Can't got wrong with any of the new Panasonic Plasmas. As I stated earlier I have the VT series and it is absolutely amazing. I also have an ST series 55 inch and it is almost as good. In fact for $1200 it is probably the best buy of all of the Panasonics IMO. As for WiFi, I think it can't hurt if all of your components have this capability for one major reason. Almost all components today require some level of firmware updates and this is still the easiest way to update. My TVs, Receivers and Blu Rays all have WiFi for just this reason although right now we prefer to stream Netflix through the TV.

Jay G
11-23-2012, 04:30 PM
BTW, if you want to start building your 5.1 system, Best Buy has a nice entry level Pioneer Elite VSX 42 Receiver on sale today for $249 which is $200 off. Again it is a nice entry level starter with a ton of bells and whistles. Just picked one up today for my oldest son as a suprise XMAS gift. I am also giving him my old Paradigm satellite system along with an entry level Polk sub I bought today.

mpoll
11-23-2012, 05:25 PM
I prefer Plasma. I watch TV in a dark area where there's no glare and it's flawless. Especially when it comes to fast action and sports where in my experience Plasma dominates...no blur.

Superior (IMO) performance with sports is the main reason I went Panasonic Viera 50" over 3 years ago. I'm pleased with my situation vs. watching sports at anyone else's man cave. I haven't even had problems when light comes in the room. I also love the very wide viewing angle plasma TVs offer.

Oh, and a separate stereo/5.1/7.1 system is a must - ANY TV's sound is substandard. If that's not affordable, at least get a compatible soundbar with sub-woofer.

mpoll
11-23-2012, 05:33 PM
Can't got wrong with any of the new Panasonic Plasmas. As I stated earlier I have the VT series and it is absolutely amazing. I also have an ST series 55 inch and it is almost as good. In fact for $1200 it is probably the best buy of all of the Panasonics IMO.

Plasma TVs can be found at very good prices now.........as the 'sexy' new thing (not better, but sexier) is the LED/LCD. Retailers are willing to deal on the Panasonic and Samsung models, especially when a newer model is arriving. I just helped my brother buy a 51" Samsung plasma a few months ago for less than $800.00 (tax included). |)

MudShark22
11-26-2012, 02:58 PM
I'm now planning on going with this plasma screen: Panasonic VIERA TC-P50GT50 50-Inch 1080p 600Hz Full HD 3D Plasma TV (I forget what the VT has over the GT, but I don't think it's worth the extra $1000+.)

BUT, I was also planning on getting one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players that is ready for Netflix On Demand, etc. (so, wi-fi ready).

Jed:

I purchased this very plasma and the oppo bdp-95 two weeks ago.
I will say that while the plasma 'finds' my wifi; getting it to accept the password / login has been problematic. The Oppo has no such issue.
I do think it may have something to do with the total # of connections on my wifi router overall, so it may not be the plasma's fault per se.

The picture absolutely rocks.

Hal...
11-26-2012, 06:39 PM
Hey, thanks guys for this thread. I had decided to get me a new flat screen and read this thread for any new info. What it also did was prompt me to do a little more research and I discovered one of the things I had always wondered about: which TV has the best resolution for standard definition. Turns out, a CRT does. And since I can't afford HD programming, right now, I'm going to hold off on buying a new TV and hold on to my old CRT.

I do have a question, though. Apparently, by 2014, everything will be HD, correct? So, can I expect, at some point in the future, for basic cable packages to include HD programming?

Firth
11-26-2012, 07:54 PM
Turns out, a CRT does. And since I can't afford HD programming, right now, I'm going to hold off on buying a new TV and hold on to my old CRT.

Was that one of the progressive scan input, digital ready CRT's? If not try a component input with setting the output from your cable box to 480i. BTW, if you do have cable with a HD set-top and a CRT, you can get a great picture on HD channels with a component interface and with setting the box on a 480i output. You will get color as good as HD, even if the resolution isn't the best. I did this for a year with my Sony Trinitron CRT before I got my Panasonic 50' Viera plasma.

MudShark22
11-27-2012, 09:02 AM
Was that one of the progressive scan input, digital ready CRT's? If not try a component input with setting the output from your cable box to 480i. BTW, if you do have cable with a HD set-top and a CRT, you can get a great picture on HD channels with a component interface and with setting the box on a 480i output. You will get color as good as HD, even if the resolution isn't the best. I did this for a year with my Sony Trinitron CRT before I got my Panasonic 50' Viera plasma.

Agree with this. I (still) have a 36" RCA CRT that has native component inputs and will accept HD signals and "downconvert" to 480p. Regular DVDs look fantastic and with some minor fiddling, the HDTV did as well.

PeterG
11-27-2012, 10:02 AM
Back in the day, the industry standard in TV studios and news & documentary film companies were Panasonic and Sony monitors. Bearing that old school mentality in mind I bought a 42" Panasonic plasma about 4 years ago and I absolutely love it, perfect picture, fantastic audio, my Blueray discs play fantastically on it. I wouldn't swap it for an LED or LCD. I've never had any problems with lines. And fast sport doesn't lag behind as I've seen it do on my neighbors LED screen. Also I don't get a distorted or vanishing picture if the screen is viewed from a side angle as you sometimes get with projector screens or when large computer monitors are used as TVs. In my book a Panasonic plasma is the shit!

MudShark22
11-29-2012, 11:01 AM
Jed:

I purchased this very plasma and the oppo bdp-95 two weeks ago.
I will say that while the plasma 'finds' my wifi; getting it to accept the password / login has been problematic. The Oppo has no such issue.
I do think it may have something to do with the total # of connections on my wifi router overall, so it may not be the plasma's fault per se.

The picture absolutely rocks.

As an update, I figured out what I was doing wrong to get the GT50 to connect. Now HuluPlus and Netflix and Skype all work.

JKL2000
11-29-2012, 05:20 PM
As an update, I figured out what I was doing wrong to get the GT50 to connect. Now HuluPlus and Netflix and Skype all work.

Cool - thanks. Good to hear you like this combo of TV and Blu-Ray.

Brian Griffin
11-29-2012, 05:39 PM
I can't afford HD programming, right now

Even though I have DirecTV, I watch a LOT of free, over the air HD TV - I get 10 or so channels from both Baltimore and DC, gratis with a roof antenna

I'd consider that route if I were in your place in addition to whatever else you were doing

BG

Klonk
11-29-2012, 05:44 PM
As an update, I figured out what I was doing wrong to get the GT50 to connect. Now HuluPlus and Netflix and Skype all work.

I have an older model Oppo (BDP-83) which is pre wi-fi. I bought a bridge kit for it from their website for firmware upgrades and such. My new Samsung was having some issues with the wi-fi and this bridge kit works perfect. Not too sure what that's all about, but like you, I though it may have been too many things using router...I dunno. What was your issue?

I'm also curious to see how you like the streaming feeds from Netflix, Hulu plus etc. I'm real nitpicky when it comes to picture quality.

MudShark22
11-30-2012, 09:09 AM
What was your issue?


Mine was in the technical setup on the TV... I kept choosing "shared key" believing that it meant my wifi password; but it meant a different encrypted key which I dont use on my home network. So when I bypassed that, it worked.

While the BDP-95 also has built in wifi, I wanted to make it easier for the wife and son to access online content; plus the TV has skype built in...so I needed the online to work.

Greg
11-30-2012, 09:36 AM
My new Samsung was having some issues with the wi-fi and this bridge kit works perfect. Not too sure what that's all about, but like you, I though it may have been too many things using router....


Mine was in the technical setup on the TV... I kept choosing "shared key" believing that it meant my wifi password; but it meant a different encrypted key which I dont use on my home network.

The networking software on various makes, models and devices can be tricky to set up at times. Things like televisions and DVD players have software engineers that are usually really not at all IT people, and write the code to do what think it should do rather than what the standards tell them to do.

Some devices will recognise the network setup automatically, others won't.

Unfortunately, the safer your network WiFi setup, the slower the communication will be between the TV and the router, and some TV/DVD/BR WiFi is not too terribly efficient at encryption/decryption so things might lag at times--especially if you have an older router.

If you have the ability to use a wired connection, I'd recommend that over the WiFi. But, not everyone can run cat5e through their home to connect everything.

The bridge devices are just external wifi hardware that usually have developers that are well versed in networking writing the software, so they would work better than the built-in wifi drivers. They may also improve reception by extending the antennae farther from the set.

MudShark22
11-30-2012, 10:10 AM
I did think about running the cat5e line to the TV; but it would have had to been under the floor; and the wife was less than enthused about drilling holes.

rapidfirerob
12-02-2012, 08:43 PM
What do you use for the center channel?

Oh, and by the way - bedroom surround, eh? Interesting... "Cool, it sounds like we're doing it inside 'Moving Pictures!'"
Old DCM speaker for the center channel. Yes, bedroom surround, no mirrors on ceiling though. Sorry it took so long to respond.

Hal...
12-10-2012, 04:38 PM
Even though I have DirecTV, I watch a LOT of free, over the air HD TV - I get 10 or so channels from both Baltimore and DC, gratis with a roof antenna
After a discussion with my father & brother on Thanksgiving, I went and double-checked the lineups for the cable companies in my area. All three offer HD channels with their "basic tier". In fact, there's an HD counterpart to almost every channel offered in that tier, which is the 2nd cheapest they have and which I already subscribe to. So all I need is either a TV equipped with a QAM tuner (which nearly all new flat screens have) or a cable card. I'll probably get the latter anyway since I want to buy a TiVo. I'm fucking suck and tired of my DVR cutting off the ends of shows. :mad

Firth
12-10-2012, 07:48 PM
BTW, if you want to start building your 5.1 system, Best Buy has a nice entry level Pioneer Elite VSX 42 Receiver on sale today for $249 which is $200 off. Again it is a nice entry level starter with a ton of bells and whistles. Just picked one up today for my oldest son as a suprise XMAS gift. I am also giving him my old Paradigm satellite system along with an entry level Polk sub I bought today.
Pioneer receivers work best with 8 ohm speakers.

Firth
12-10-2012, 07:51 PM
I'm fucking suck and tired of my DVR cutting off the ends of shows. :mad

Problem is that the published times are incorrect. My Fios DVR lets me add time to the beginning and end of programming scheduled to be programmed. This is particularly important for football games which get 60 minutes tacked on to the end.

Hal...
12-11-2012, 04:20 PM
Problem is that the published times are incorrect.
Depends on the network. I never have a problem with CBS. NBC, ABC, and Fox all start one show immediately after another ends and if I record two shows back to back, the end of one and the beginning of the other get cut off by about 10-20 seconds. In fact, the show 30 Rock actually made reference to this at the end of one of their shows.


My Fios DVR lets me add time to the beginning and end of programming scheduled to be programmed.Mine does as well, but there are other issues to contend with. One is conflicts; I have to fiddle around with start & end times if I'm recording consecutive shows while also recording a show on another channel. Another issue is that I have to do this every week, as the DVR software my cable company uses leaves a lot to be desired. Never really had a problem when I subscribed to Time-Warner, surprisingly.

But anyway, my niece used to get TiVo with her satellite service and she said that with consecutive shows, the switch from one to the next was seamless. If you're recording sports, I think she said it automatically adjusts the end time if it goes long; and if you're recording a show that comes on after sports, TiVo will automatically adjust the start time for that show if the sports show went long. And lastly, she said that you don't really have to adjust start or stop times; TiVo seems to know when a show starts & stops.

Greg
12-12-2012, 10:44 AM
On the topic of DVR programme schedules, does anyone know where the providers get the schedules?

AT&T U-verse seem to have recurring issues with getting the correct schedule--this week, actually, I'm battling with a schedule that doesn't even have the correct names of the shows that are currently playing, and I'm missing shows because the schedule seems to have all the wrong shows listed fro certain channels.

These are not the major networks, but I even gave up trying to watch CSI Miami because that channel had the show starting at random times every Sunday night, and the DVR schedule never caught the end of the show--even if I programmed the thing to end an hour after the show schedule.

AT&T U-verse support doesn't seem to understand what I'm talking about when I call to complain about the issue, but I guess that's pare for the course.

Otherwise, though, I happen to like the AT&T U-Verse DVR better the cable companies' offerings. the software seems to be far better thought out. But, I'd expect TiVo to have far better software, still.

Brian Griffin
12-12-2012, 11:11 AM
I don't have any scheduling issues with any of my DirecTV DVRs

BG

rapidfirerob
12-12-2012, 01:22 PM
I waited for U Verse to come to my block for two years. It was a few blocks in either direction for the longest time. I finally went with Xfinity and have been pleased with it thus far, though I liked Dish Network's DVR better. My internet is blazing fast and like the phone service with voice mail and caller ID.
Service went down a week ago during a heavy rain and windstorm. They fixed it within hours. Impressed so far. I never thought I'd be a customer of theirs. It's also easy to get someone on the phone quickly. Time will tell.

Greg
12-13-2012, 09:36 AM
Unfortunately, I live in a condo, so I can't attach a dish to the building. My only options, here, are Cablevision and AT&T and the former has pissed me off beyond belief. I have been very impressed with U-Verse TV and internet, and their support has been very good for me, but I have heard others complain about bad experiences. My only issue with U-Verse is that it's not fibre to the residence. It's only fibre to the pole, and transmissions from pole to residence if over twisted pair phone lines--not even coax. But, even their mid-level internet package is more than sufficient for my needs. I don't use phone service--I only have mobile service.

It seems that, today, my DVR programme schedule has fixed itself--after making me miss three days of a daily mid-day show that both my wife and I didn't want to miss. Still don't know where these clowns get the schedules or who to talk to to complain about those problems.

ronmac
12-17-2012, 07:58 AM
So, this thread has been very helpful, as I'm just looking at TVs now. I've done a lot of research and I really want a Panasonic plasma, but the 50" is just too big and the smaller Samsung models are low-resolution (750p). Looks like I'm stuck with LED, which has a harsher picture than I'd like.

MudShark22
12-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Panasonic is moving away from the 42" line of plasmas....much harder to find than ever.

ronmac
12-17-2012, 12:16 PM
Panasonic is moving away from the 42" line of plasmas....much harder to find than ever.

Actually, they have moved away, period.

MudShark22
12-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Well, panasonic's 2012 lineup did include 42" models for their UT, XT and X series. So they did not abandon the size (with UT being the one line with 1080p). What panasonic will do for 2013 remains to be seen still.

tom unbound
12-17-2012, 02:36 PM
Sorry, I'm straying a little bit, but it is about the display screens.
Corning developed Gorilla Glass, and now Willow glass, a much thinner and stronger glass for screens. This is the bendable glass you've seen before. The can print OLEDs and circuitry directly on it as it is produced, something like this 'Hollywood' version here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXQEpVRtGtw&feature=youtu.be
A friend involved 'somewhere in the manufacturing process' told me a little story. A manufacturer's representative came in for a meeting and brought in the latest thing. (this was ~ a year ago) He had a roll tucked under his arm, and then un-rolled it and laid it on the table. It was a piece of that Willow glass-and much more. He placed his phone/PDA/Blackberry/whatever on it. It lit up and went full-screen. It was totally touch controlled. After the demo, he removed the phone, it went dark, and he rolled it back up again. (There was some codeword for the project, but I forgot what it was, I'll ask him again) Massive amount of secrecy over the whole project. Locked doors and everything. Somebody's building a $600.000.000 glass plant in China now. Coincidence?
I think this Quantum Dot nano-crystal tech might leapfrog the OLED .

rapidfirerob
12-17-2012, 03:33 PM
Sheesh. It's only television.

ronmac
12-17-2012, 03:43 PM
Well, panasonic's 2012 lineup did include 42" models for their UT, XT and X series. So they did not abandon the size (with UT being the one line with 1080p). What panasonic will do for 2013 remains to be seen still.

Everything I'm seeing out there is either used, discontinued or, if new, 720p. If you're seeing something I'm not, let me know.

MudShark22
12-17-2012, 04:16 PM
Sorry to get your hopes up. I thought you were saying Panasonic did not make them anymore; they do, but they sell out fast.
If I see a BNIB 42" I will let you know. Only the UT model has 1080p; otherwise it will be 720p.

ronmac
12-17-2012, 04:50 PM
Sorry to get your hopes up. I thought you were saying Panasonic did not make them anymore; they do, but they sell out fast.
If I see a BNIB 42" I will let you know. Only the UT model has 1080p; otherwise it will be 720p.

They don't have the UT on their own site. This is all they show.

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera-televisions-viera-plasma-hdtvs?&includeSubSwatches=true&screen%20size%20in=int:42

MudShark22
12-17-2012, 04:59 PM
From what I gather, the UT was released early in 2012 then essentially production ceased mid-year. Which is a real shame.
I will definitely keep an eye out for you though; sometimes BNIB items magically appear; though with CES 2013 in January and the new TV lineup coming, its not likely to happen.

tom unbound
12-18-2012, 11:06 AM
808 :geezer

Sheesh. It's only television.
Same old story.
Bootleg music - do you hear the performance or the vinyl/tape/crowd noise ?
Television - do you watch the show or the TV screen ?
Haven't seen broadcast TV shows (at home) for over a year now, don't miss it a bit. No time. Way too much on the Internet for me. But a 50 or maybe 72 inch I can see in my future.

Price V.S. being obsolete is my big conundrum.

rapidfirerob
12-18-2012, 11:30 AM
808
That's my TV!

ronmac
12-18-2012, 12:25 PM
808 :geezer

Same old story.
Bootleg music - do you hear the performance or the vinyl/tape/crowd noise ?

You're preachin' to the choir, pal. There are so many truly great and historic performances that are being missed only because the sound quality isn't perfect or even great. Sure, it takes an acquired taste to be able to listen beyond the flaws, but it's well worth it. Some of my favorite recordings will never see the light of day. Our gain, their loss.

rapidfirerob
12-18-2012, 01:40 PM
You're preachin' to the choir, pal. There are so many truly great and historic performances that are being missed only because the sound quality isn't perfect or even great. Sure, it takes an acquired taste to be able to listen beyond the flaws, but it's well worth it. Some of my favorite recordings will never see the light of day. Our gain, their loss.
Agreed. Unless the sound quality is absolutely awful, it's worth listening to IMO.

ronmac
12-18-2012, 04:30 PM
Well, I was just looking at the 43" Panasonic Plasma, which is only 720p, but really does look good. I watched it for about ten minutes, blocking out all the harshly bright LEDs next to it and tried to compare it not to those, but to the TV I'm replacing. The tonality was certainly richer and more realistic compared to the LEDs. It's still a vast improvement over what I have and, at $400.00, I'm really leaning that way.

I'll be taking the wife to look at it tomorrow and see how the picture settings are set on the display model. Always a good idea to see how the sale team sets things to sell... or not sell.

Jerjo
12-18-2012, 04:49 PM
$400 sounds like a steal to me.

MudShark22
12-18-2012, 04:54 PM
I'll be taking the wife to look at it tomorrow and see how the picture settings are set on the display model. Always a good idea to see how the sale team sets things to sell... or not sell.

I am sure that the brightness and contrast levels will be set to "stun"

Klonk
12-18-2012, 05:22 PM
Yes, you can tan if you stand in front of a TV in the store. Any TV bought should be calibrated anyway to get the best picture.

tom unbound
12-18-2012, 06:22 PM
I'll be taking the wife to look at it tomorrow and see how the picture settings are set on the display model. Always a good idea to see how the sale team sets things to sell... or not sell.

TRUE ! Bought a 'cheap' 27in Sharp years ago. Saw it at Best Buy a while later, went over and made it look better than the $$$$ ones, LOL!

Hal...
12-18-2012, 06:31 PM
When's the best time to buy a TV? Right now or should I wait till after the new year?

Jay G
12-18-2012, 08:17 PM
Lots of folks believe the best time is after the new year and just prior to the Super Bowl.

ronmac
12-18-2012, 09:13 PM
I am sure that the brightness and contrast levels will be set to "stun"

Actually, I more referring to the settings on the Plasma, which is a lower price and stuck all the way in the corner of the TV section. I would expect the contrast to be lowered on that to make everything else look punchier.

Jerjo
12-18-2012, 11:01 PM
I never calibrated my Panasonic plasma, just left it at the default settings. I know how to get my speakers toed in to the inch to get the optimal audio stage but I'm clueless when it comes to video stuff. But I do know that my picture looks damn good and I guess that's the main thing.

Greg
12-19-2012, 07:30 AM
...and, at $400.00, I'm really leaning that way.

In this age of electronics, $400 is pretty much a disposable unit. If the picture quality is comfortable for you to watch for long enough periods of times, I don't see how you could go wrong with a set for that price.

ronmac
12-19-2012, 07:35 AM
In this age of electronics, $400 is pretty much a disposable unit. If the picture quality is comfortable for you to watch for long enough periods of times, I don't see how you could go wrong with a set for that price.

That's actually what I paid for my last set, a JVC that I bought more than 15 years ago. They made the best CRTs back then. Apparently, they don't make TVs anymore.

Hal...
12-19-2012, 11:32 AM
That's actually what I paid for my last set, a JVC that I bought more than 15 years ago. They made the best CRTs back then. Apparently, they don't make TVs anymore.
Yes they do. You just have to hunt for them and I doubt you'll find many retailers that carry them in store. HH Gregg is the only one I know of. JVC is still available from online merchants and from some brick & mortars that also sell online but don't stock in store.

Like you, I bought a JVC CRT in either '99 or '00. It was the 2nd to last in a long line of JVC components I'd purchased over the years (my ex still has it and uses it). How they went from a reasonably priced, near-high end electronics company to being hard to find is a mystery to me. The last JVC item I bought was a little, bookshelf type stereo that I use in the bedroom. Unfortunately, it has developed the trouble of reading mp3 discs. :meh

But, I still have a JVC VCR that I occasionally use. And my JVC CD player I bought in '90 - yes! 1990 - works like it did when I bought it!

But back to TVs... based on what I've read on Consumer Reports' website, there are really only 4 brands that are worth the money: Panasonic (primarily for their plasmas), Samsung (also good for plasmas), Sony, and LG. Based on reliability, some other good ones are Sharp, Sanyo, and JVC, but I haven't checked CRs ratings on those, yet, and I don't think any of those three make plasmas.

As with other electronics, I'd avoid Magnavox, RCA, and Philips, all of which used to be decent, once. Magnavox is owned by Philips and RCA has sucked for a really long time. According to CR, "Philips LCD TVs in North America are sourced and marketed by P&F USA, a subsidiary of the Funai Corporation (which also controls the Emerson, Magnavox, Sylvania, and Symphonic brands)." RCA (and GE) products are (or were) marketed/owned by Thomson, who suck big ass donkey balls. In the last 10 years, anything I bought that was made by Philips or Thomson shit the bed in less than 15 months. The only thing I've had success with is the Sonicare electric toothbrush, ironically, an industry leader.

walt
12-19-2012, 03:02 PM
I just got my first HD tv,a 32 inch LED Samsung.Not the high end model, just 720p but with a HDMI cable the picture sure is better than what i had on my 20 year old 27inch JVC.

So far i'm a happy camper.

MudShark22
12-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Until broadcast networks (e.g. NBC) actually send 1080p signals, a 720p set is more than fine, especially with the HDMI connection.
Blu-Ray DVDs is the only reason for a 1080p set, and for years I watched Blu-Ray @ 720p and it was stellar. So unless one likes to be an early adopter or has a hankering for the latest/greatest....

Hal...
12-19-2012, 09:03 PM
Say what? Networks aren't broadcasting in 1080 yet? :O

Klonk
12-20-2012, 01:51 AM
Yes they are. 1080i

Brian Griffin
12-20-2012, 07:00 AM
Yes they do.

A long while back my Dad had passed away and a friend of mine felt I needed some cheering up and gave me a JVC 42" Plasma as a Christmas present that still looks incredible about 8 years on

This was my first HD TV

It's "tuner" is actually a separate box, and the digital connection is DVI and not HDMI, but every Thanksgiving we marvel at how good it still looks

I'm very skeptical of the industry term "half life" based on this set - it doesn't get played every day, but still, I'd be very curious how their current offerings look

BG

MudShark22
12-20-2012, 09:08 AM
Say what? Networks aren't broadcasting in 1080 yet? :O

Dont confuse 1080i with 1080p.
1080p is blu-ray standard and networks do not broadcast in that format.
1080i and 720p were the initial HD signals and while slightly different obviously, there is no negligible difference between them, except for people with the Six Million Dollar Man's bionic eye.

slight older info:

3. What content is available in 1080p?
Really, nothing at this point. Today's high-def broadcasts are done in either 1080i or 720p, and there's little or no chance they'll jump to 1080p any time soon because of bandwidth issues.

MudShark22
12-20-2012, 09:11 AM
I'm very skeptical of the industry term "half life" based on this set - it doesn't get played every day, but still, I'd be very curious how their current offerings look

BG

10,000 hours is about a standard half life. So if your TV is on for 8 hours per day; that would be about 3 1/2 years or so.
And again this is affected by your settings as well (e.g. higher brightness / contrast settings = shorter half life)

ronmac
12-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Well, the wife didn't care for the 43" Plasma I took her to look at. (Don't even ask, because she didn't look at it the way I asked her to.) (Actually, I misspoke; it was a Samsung, not Panasonic.) Anyway, looks like we're going for the Panasonic 50" UT series. I just hope it's not too big. Still, at $700.00, it's a good deal.

MudShark22
12-20-2012, 11:39 AM
Anyway, looks like we're going for the Panasonic 50" UT series. I just hope it's not too big. Still, at $700.00, it's a good deal.

:up

Hal...
12-20-2012, 12:05 PM
Don't confuse 1080i with 1080p. I don't; I know the difference.


slight older info:
there's little or no chance they'll jump to 1080p any time soon because of bandwidth issues.

I don't recall reading that. What I didn't know before was that 1080p does require more bandwidth, which didn't make sense to me, at first. I researched it a little bit and now I know why: it's because 1080p material is broadcast at the same frame rate as 1080i! No wonder it requires more bandwidth.


(Don't even ask, because she didn't look at it the way I asked her to.)

:lol Women. :roll

ronmac
12-20-2012, 02:14 PM
Well, I just hid the new plasma in the basement. I think the size will be okay. This model does not have the VR filter (or whatever it's called) to minimize the reflectivity, which has been a criticism of plasma sets. Many new models have this filter. However, I cannot see how anything that cuts glare would not affect tonality. I would expect blacks to not be as black.

This will be quite a jump from a 27" CRT (which will move to my bedroom :) ) to a 50" flat screen.The kids will freak out.

Greg
12-21-2012, 09:27 AM
However, I cannot see how anything that cuts glare would not affect tonality. I would expect blacks to not be as black.

If it acts as a polariser, then it should actually deepen blacks and increase contrast, but I have no idea how the AR filters are designed.

Unfortunately, if it does works as a polariser it should theoretically reduce the viewing angle a bit, which seems to be one reason people have discussed, here, to go with the plasma over LCD or LED.

Klonk
12-21-2012, 11:21 AM
If you watch tv a lot in the day just make sure you don't put it directly across from windows. Glare problem solved :D

ronmac
12-21-2012, 07:37 PM
If you watch tv a lot in the day just make sure you don't put it directly across from windows. Glare problem solved :D

Well, that's impossible, since three walls have windows and the fourth has a fireplace. The easier solution is to watch the show and not the reflections. Or buy darker curtains.

Hal...
12-31-2012, 09:38 PM
After a year of dickin' around, I finally took the plunge and got an HDTV. At $212 off, I had to act. Plus, my brother got the exact same TV for gaming (he said that it's rated the best, according to something he read) and he recommended it highly. Not to mention that it was rated one of the best by Consumer Reports for LCDs and LEDs.

It's only a 40" but, holy shit, it's fuckin' huge! Of course, I sit only about 7' away, too, so it's more than adequate.

Another thing I noticed is that given the size and quality, 2D shows have an almost 3D quality about them. It's kind of bizarre, actually, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it!

The specific TV I got is a Samsung LED, 1920x1080 resolution, full 1080p, 120Hz refresh rate. After watching chicks in bikinis on the Travel channel, I gotta say, I love this TV. :D

ronmac
01-01-2013, 10:22 AM
Today, I'm hoping to hook up the new Panasonic 50" plasma I got. It took a while to find a stand for it. HD service starts on 1/15, so we'll be set. The TV is too big, but, hey, I tried to go smaller, but the wife just refused to listen. Admittedly, it was only 720p, but still a great set, and far better than what we've been using for 15 years. (and $300.00 less.) The only problem is that finding a decent stand cost me $500.00. I wanted a good piece of furniture, not one of those crappy $89.00 stands from Wal-Mart. Plus, I try to avoid that shit-hole of a store at all costs.

But, we had a great business year and the kids deserve it, so...

walt
01-01-2013, 10:37 AM
I had to settle for a 32-inch LED because the wall unit in my living room only has space for a 32-incher.The only way to fit a 40-inch tv is to replace the wall unit with one that has a larger space for a tv,and i didn't want to deal with the expense and work of emptying out all my cds, books, magazines,audio equipment, etc from my wall unit and put 'em in a new one.

I rejected the idea of putting a larger tv elsewhere in my living room.I wanted the tv to fit in the unit, where i'd had it for many years.

If i'm not satisfied watching a 32-incher, then that will be the motivation for me to replace the wall unit with one that can accomodate a bigger tv.

Hal...
01-01-2013, 04:18 PM
You know, something else to consider is electricity usage. The Energy Guide estimated yearly energy cost of my TV is only $9 per year.

No, that's not a typo.

LEDs are very efficient which is good news for me since watching TV accounts for about 30% of my electricity usage. I'm exaggerating, obviously, but I do watch a shitload of tubeage.

ronmac
01-01-2013, 04:21 PM
Yep, plasmas definitely eat more power. I'm willing to live with that, since we waste little money on much else.

ronmac
01-05-2013, 09:28 AM
Well, finally hooked up the new 50" plasma yesterday after dropping $500.00 on a decent stand. HD service starts next week.

And, once I got to the picture settings, I could see how the sales people would keep it on Standard, which is dark and flat and make you want to buy one of the blown-out LCD with their headache-inducing brightness and higher profit margins. Once I did some of my own custom adjustments, the color and contrast is fantastic.

Klonk
01-05-2013, 12:08 PM
You should grab a calibration disc and set up the picture that way. I mean of course ultimately you like what you like, but calibrating with the disc really brings out the best picture the TV can offer. Every time I turn on my TV now I'm blown away.

Another thing I have to mention is 3D. I never thought I'd have any interest in it with the glasses n all, but gave it a whirl (my plasma has 3D capability) and I have to admit that it's pretty fuckin cool! I watched the movie Brave with my nieces. Lots of fun. It's definitely not something I'll use for serious movie watchin', but with the kids it's a blast.

ronmac
01-05-2013, 12:31 PM
You should grab a calibration disc and set up the picture that way. I mean of course ultimately you like what you like, but calibrating with the disc really brings out the best picture the TV can offer. Every time I turn on my TV now I'm blown away.

Another thing I have to mention is 3D. I never thought I'd have any interest in it with the glasses n all, but gave it a whirl (my plasma has 3D capability) and I have to admit that it's pretty fuckin cool! I watched the movie Brave with my nieces. Lots of fun. It's definitely not something I'll use for serious movie watchin', but with the kids it's a blast.

Yeah, mine has 3D, as well. I'm afraid to see what the glasses cost. I'm guessing about 20 bucks per pair.

Calibration disc sounds interesting. Where would I find one and, more importantly, why don't they just include one with the set?

Klonk
01-05-2013, 01:11 PM
The only reason I have one is because it came free with my Oppo Blu-Ray player. It was Spears & Munsil http://spearsandmunsil.com/welcome.html but this version is out of print. A lot of DVDs and Blu-Rays come with a calibrating feature now. Not as detailed as Spears & Munsil, but gets you a good picture.

Here's some others...

http://home-theater-calibration-review.toptenreviews.com/

ronmac
01-05-2013, 01:46 PM
Thanks, Klonk. I'll rely on my eyes for now. I do tons of color correction and adjustments to photos, so I have a pretty good sense for color and balance. They key is to walk away and look at it with fresh eyes and continue tweaking under the same lighting conditions.

kid_runningfox
01-05-2013, 08:18 PM
The specific TV I got is a Samsung LED, 1920x1080 resolution, full 1080p, 120Hz refresh rate. After watching chicks in bikinis on the Travel channel, I gotta say, I love this TV. :D

I just picked up a 40" Samsung LED Full-1080 Smart TV as well. I have it hooked up into my hi-fi rig via the digital out and I'm just amazed at how good it is. Also, through the upscaling HDTV connection, even regular dvd is in another league as regards picture quality. I'll go the Blu-ray route at some point, but at the moment I'm letting my wallet recover from the battering it's just taken!

Hal...
01-05-2013, 09:01 PM
I just picked up a 40" Samsung LED Full-1080 Smart TV as well. For a "small" HDTV, it's fuckin' big, isn't it?


Something else I've noticed with HDTV: the artifice of fictional television programs is now apparent. Sometimes, it even feels like I'm actually on the set. Anyone else notice this?

It's almost disconcerting.

ronmac
01-06-2013, 02:59 PM
So, I watched "To Have and Have Not" with Bogey and Bacall (She was so fucking hot!), from, I believe, 1941. (Once again, I don't have high-def service yet.) Watching that movie was like sitting in a theater. The tonality of the picture had so much depth with the deep blacks and natural highlights, it was like sitting right there with them, even though it was B&W. I just kept marveling at it, thinking about how flat things look on my old TV. Truly stunning!

MudShark22
01-07-2013, 01:55 PM
Glad that you are enjoying your new set! :up

Panasonic just announced their new 2013 plasma lineup; it appears that 42" plasmas are only being made for the lower two tiers: a 1080p non-3D model and a 720p model. On sale in FEB 2013.

ronmac
01-10-2013, 04:45 PM
I would have gone for the 42" 1080 model in a heartbeat. My 50" is not as ridiculously large as I suspected, but I still think the 42" would have been better.

At least, that's what she said. ;)

MudShark22
01-10-2013, 04:58 PM
I had been worried that the 50" plasma I bought would dominate the room; but with a better stand and smaller entertainment unit; the overall footprint appears smaller.

ronmac
01-10-2013, 09:54 PM
I had been worried that the 50" plasma I bought would dominate the room; but with a better stand and smaller entertainment unit; the overall footprint appears smaller.

Yep, I had the same experience. I'm just glad I didn't consider the suggestion of putting it over the fireplace, which would have dominated the room and probably eventually ruined the set.

Jerjo
01-10-2013, 10:33 PM
Our 55" looked huge when it was on the stand in our living room but when it went on the wall it seemed to be perfect. But we got one long-ass living room.

ronmac
01-16-2013, 07:57 AM
Just got my HD service yesterday. First channel I turned on was Animal Planet. They were showing a doc on The Great Barrier Reef. I was totally blown away. I felt like I could climb right into the TV and swim with all the fish.

Watching concert footage on Palladia was unreal.

I am so glad I went with the plasma. It's actually better than a theater, IMO.

Jerjo
01-20-2013, 02:08 PM
So, I have downloaded a lot of TV shows and we've been watching them all on wife's computer. I wanted a setup like a PLEX in our living room but to do the Windows version of that you need a Xbox or a computer (or ideally both) to pull it off. I tried get taking an external hard drive to the cable box/DVR, which has a USB port but nothing worked.

Today I was farting around with the Windows Media Center on my computer. It's a futsy thing but it works. I figured maybe with the new laptop (getting that in about a week and a half) I'll start setting things up in the living room. And it occurred to me, maybe I can set up a network through the Panasonic Viera. So I spent half an hour getting it connected to the network, finding links for Netflix, etc. But it didn't want to make the jump to the hard drive where all the media is. I'm sure there is a way but I was getting impatient. Then I noticed an option in the TV menu called "media center". Oooooooh.

I ran back to my office, got the backup hard drive for my wife's computer and got out the manual for the TV. Yep, there were two USB ports. I plugged the drive into one of those and told the media center to look for it. Sweet Jebus, it worked. So after watching two seasons of Downton, umpteen episodes of Merlin, Dexter, Justified, and a bunch of other stuff all on a computer monitor, we can now enjoy it all in 55" style. I am a MEDIA GOD.

Greg
01-20-2013, 02:25 PM
So, I have downloaded a lot of TV shows...got out the manual for the TV. Yep, there were two USB ports. I plugged the drive into one of those and told the media center to look for it. Sweet Jebus, it worked. So after watching two seasons of Downton, umpteen episodes of Merlin, Dexter, Justified, and a bunch of other stuff all on a computer monitor, we can now enjoy it all in 55" style. I am a MEDIA GOD.

My TV didn't come with a manual, and there doesn't seem to be one available on line. You're kinda' lucky you've got one.

The USB ports on the new televisions are great. My wife and I have been watching downloaded films via a USB thumb drive on our LED TV for a while, now. Saves converting all the MKV, AVI, MP3, MP4, etc. files to DVD before watching them. My TV has three, one for each USB revision, and there's no stuttering when the TV reads the thumb drive.

The only drawback is that some codecs don't play happily on the TV (the TV's software is not quite as capable as a computer's) so I occasionally have to convert the files to another format--but, on Linux, that's pretty darned easy, usually.

Unfortunately, the TV software has a lot of trouble using VOBSUB subtitle files and embedded multi-track subtitles (no way to turn on the subtitle track if it's not forced inside the video file), so I either have to convert those files to AVI with hard-coded subtitles, or use avidmux's VOBSUB OCR capabilities to convert to SRT text-based subs, which can be a pain in the arse. And, for a few films, I've had to fight for a while before finding the right the conversion method to extract or embed the subtitles.

The Samsung SMART TV software does work well with SRT subtitle files that have the same file basename as the video file, saved to the same directory on the USB drive.

Hal...
01-21-2013, 04:28 PM
I am a MEDIA GOD.:lol

Jerjo
01-21-2013, 04:58 PM
I think I'm only a demi-god. Not all of the files in the hard drive show up even though it appears that file type isn't an issue. Plenty of avi. files show up yet some do not. I posted a question to Panasonic support and will get an answer in another day. So I still might end up hitching the laptop up to the system to drive it but I can live with that (just need a big HDMI cable).

Greg
01-21-2013, 05:53 PM
Not all of the files in the hard drive show up even though it appears that file type isn't an issue.

Plenty of avi. files show up yet some do not.

See if you can find a pattern to the differences between the file names. I.e.:

- Do the ones not showing up have spaces in the file names?
- Do they begin or end with a '.' (period) or a space?
- Do they have any characters other alphanumerics, periods, underscores and hyphens? ([a-zA-Z0-9._ -]?)
- Is the file type extension capitalised instead of lower case ("AVI", instead of "avi")?
- How many characters long are the file names that do not show up? Is that longer than the ones that do?

Try renaming the files to something shorter, all lower case, with no spaces or strange characters and see that fixes it.

Jerjo
01-21-2013, 07:26 PM
I tried some renaming but that didn't make any difference. It's very fussy about file types. FLV, MKV and MP4 are the only files that show up, and never, never AVI, which most of my concerts are in. FUCK!

I found a converter but it will only do one file at at time. Wish I could just load all my wife's favorite shows into a hopper, wait a few days, and pull 'em all out.

Greg
01-21-2013, 11:07 PM
FLV, MKV and MP4 are the only files that show up, and never, never AVI, which most of my concerts are in. FUCK!

Ah... I read your earlier post thinking that some AVIs worked, and some AVIs didn't.

AVI happens to be a Microsoft proprietary container format, so Panasonic may not be supporting it.

I believe you can download ffmpeg (free) for Windows, and it may already be available for MacOS. If you have the right argument combination for all your AVI videos, you'd be able to create a batch script (or, I could try to write it for you--been a while since I wrote batch code for Windows), to run through all the videos automatically at the command line.

If you had access to a Linux box, ffmpeg, mecoder and mkvmerge are all available to convert AVI files to a wide variety of codecs/containers. Graphical tools like avidemux are also available, but would only process one video at a time.

Jerjo
01-22-2013, 12:13 AM
Greg, it was my thought that some AVIs worked and some didn't but after I made a careful note of what files showed up when displayed on the Panasonic versus what my PC displayed I realized that AVI was not supported. I went to CNET and downloaded the Freemake video converter. After some experimentation I found out how to dump several folders in it and start a mass conversion. It will probably take a few days to get everything switched but it will be worth it. Thanks for your assistance.

Greg
01-22-2013, 09:35 AM
...I went to CNET and downloaded the Freemake video converter. After some experimentation I found out how to dump several folders in it and start a mass conversion. It will probably take a few days to get everything switched but it will be worth it. Thanks for your assistance.

No problem... Interested, I went to CNET to check out Freemake and there seem to be a couple of scary reviews that mention browser toolbar and miscellaneous background application installation in addition to the Freemake software. Did this happen during your install? You may want to do a full virus scan, just in case.

Hopefully, the install was clean and you have a good tool to get your videos in order, now.

Just a note: if you play around at all with Matroska containers (MKV) keep in mind that some time map and bitstream conversions are incompatible with the video player codecs on the TVs. As well, I have seen some MP4 conversions cause decode problems. You may need to play around with a few videos occasionally to make the TV happy.

Jerjo
01-22-2013, 10:20 AM
Yeah, it wanted to install a couple extra goodies but I've done enough software installations now that I kill those things on sight. I've got Webroot guarding my back and that sucker is a pitbull.

BobM
01-22-2013, 12:44 PM
Just received delivery on a Panasonic 55" plasma (55GT50). Need to hang it tonight when I get home from work.

Jay G
01-22-2013, 04:52 PM
My cheap Vizio 37" LCD in my bedroom shit the bed after just 3 years of ownership. Vizio wanted $205 to fix it but I figured it was not worth it since my research and reviews I read on line indicate almost no one in the entire world has gotten one of these Vizio's to last more than 4-5 years at best. I headed out this weekend and ended up getting a steal. A Panasonic 42" Smart 1080P 120Hz LED LCD for just $599. Picture is great though not as impressive as my ST or VT series Panasonic Plasmas. Funny I now have a 42" TV in my bedroom when just 10 years ago when I built my first home theater I had a Sony 40" Projection LCD that was about 5 times the size of this new one. Only issue with the new TV is the sounds really sucks as it does on all of these TVs. As they get slimmer the sound just keeps getting worse.

Hal...
01-22-2013, 05:08 PM
That's been the common complaint with widescreen TVs: shitty sound. My new Samsung was no different. But then I discovered it has an equalizer. After some adjustments, it now sounds better my old CRT, which isn't exactly saying a lot, but it's more than acceptable for watching TV shows.

My only regret with getting a new HDTV is that everything looks so damn good, now, I can't stop watching it!

kid_runningfox
01-22-2013, 05:29 PM
That's been the common complaint with widescreen TVs: shitty sound. My new Samsung was no different. But then I discovered it has an equalizer. After some adjustments, it now sounds better my old CRT, which isn't exactly saying a lot, but it's more than acceptable for watching TV shows.

My only regret with getting a new HDTV is that everything looks so damn good, now, I can't stop watching it!

If your TV has a digital audio out (most do) you can hook it up to your Hi-fi/AV setup via an external DAC or digital receiver. I've done that with my TV and it sounds amazing.

Jay G
01-22-2013, 05:30 PM
That's been the common complaint with widescreen TVs: shitty sound. My new Samsung was no different. But then I discovered it has an equalizer. After some adjustments, it now sounds better my old CRT, which isn't exactly saying a lot, but it's more than acceptable for watching TV shows.

My only regret with getting a new HDTV is that everything looks so damn good, now, I can't stop watching it!

Yeah but the original HDTVs did actually have good sound. My Sony Projection LCD had 2 large vertical speakers on both sides, My 43" Samsung DLP also had larger speakers and sounded decent. Even the Vizio had 2 decent sounding horizontal speakers just about the mounting stand. Today the TVs are just too narrow with such a thin bezeled edge there is no room for any sort of decent speakers.

Hal...
01-23-2013, 11:39 PM
If your TV has a digital audio out (most do) you can hook it up to your Hi-fi/AV setup via an external DAC or digital receiver. I've done that with my TV and it sounds amazing.
I did, too, utilizing the optical out. And you're right, it sounds great. But like I said, after adjusting the equalizer, I'm more than pleased with the sound from the TV, so I usually don't bother with the stereo, unless it's a movie.

walt
01-24-2013, 05:51 PM
I screwed up buying the cheapest Samsung 32 in LCD tv.Too many channels still have that truncated picture,bars at the top and bottom.I went to the picture menu to see if i could stretch the picture to fill the screen and that feature is dark,the cursor skips over it.I checked the FIOS cable box to make sure it had the correct settings, and it does.

Either i'm not accessing the proper menu to fix this or my model doesn't offer the means to stretch the picture.I had no frikkin idea this would happen.If i knew this would be the case i;d have sprung for a better model tv.

Grumble grumble...

Greg
01-24-2013, 06:35 PM
I went to the picture menu to see if i could stretch the picture to fill the screen...

I really don't mind the black bars at top and bottom. They bother me less than the stretched-rubber-people effect. My mid-level Samsung model has this feature, and I don't use it.

roylayer
01-24-2013, 07:11 PM
It's funny... Before I got my first widescreen TV, I swore that I would never use the "stretching" effects - neither horizontal nor vertical. I was a purist. But I find myself doing it fairly often. My brain mentally adjusts for the distortion, so the picture looks normal to me.

Walt, check your cable or satellite box. Mine lets me stretch the picture in various ways for the non-high def channels. My TV lets me stretch all types of picture sources in slightly different ways.

Hal...
01-25-2013, 01:26 PM
I have a few choices on my Samsung: "16:9", "Zoom 1" and "Zoom 2" (both for SD channels), "Wide Fit" (stretches a 4:3 image both horizontally & vertically, so there's no distortion; the only problem is I have to adjust the sharpness dramatically), "4:3", and "Screen Fit". The best, by far, is Screen Fit. While it appears to be the same as 16:9, it actually shows the complete HD signal. With 16:9, there's about a 1% loss of image around the edges. Not sure why.

MudShark22
01-25-2013, 02:30 PM
The best, by far, is Screen Fit. While it appears to be the same as 16:9, it actually shows the complete HD signal. With 16:9, there's about a 1% loss of image around the edges. Not sure why.

It might be due to the small difference in resolution between your TV (e.g. 720p) and the resolution of the broadcast (e.g. 1080i)
If your TV has same resolution as signal; then I am not sure what the difference might be.

walt
01-25-2013, 02:53 PM
I have a few choices on my Samsung: "16:9", "Zoom 1" and "Zoom 2" (both for SD channels), "Wide Fit" (stretches a 4:3 image both horizontally & vertically, so there's no distortion; the only problem is I have to adjust the sharpness dramatically), "4:3", and "Screen Fit". The best, by far, is Screen Fit. While it appears to be the same as 16:9, it actually shows the complete HD signal. With 16:9, there's about a 1% loss of image around the edges. Not sure why.

I'm screwed because my Samsung lists all these options,but only 16:9,Zoom 1 and Zoom 2,and 4:3 actually are viable.The other listed options are dark and the cursor skips over them.It would seem my cheaper model doesn't offer Wide Fit,Screen Fit.That sucks gopher tits.It's my dumb ass fault for not checking beforehand but i honestly had no fucking idea these things wouldn't be available on my model.

Hal...
01-25-2013, 04:34 PM
It might be due to the small difference in resolution between your TV (e.g. 720p) and the resolution of the broadcast (e.g. 1080i)
If your TV has same resolution as signal; then I am not sure what the difference might be.
The description under the choice reads, "Displays the full native HD signal that cannot be viewed using a normal TV." Sometimes, when channels broadcast a 4:3 program in HD, e.g. TCM, a very thin white band appears at the top of the image. I can see it when I've got the TV set to "Screen Fit", but when I change it to 16:9, I can't. That's about the only use I've found for that setting. Otherwise, I always use Screen Fit.

As for the signal, itself, I have a TiVo DVR and the image it sends to my TV is 1080i, but that's because my TV is 1080.


I'm screwed because my Samsung lists all these options, but only 16:9,Zoom 1 and Zoom 2,and 4:3 actually are viable.The other listed options are dark and the cursor skips over them.
I'd be willing to bet it's not the TV's fault. For instance, on mine, the Zoom 1 & 2 settings are grayed out. I haven't figured out why, yet, but I'm not interested in them, either... yet. In your case, I have ideas, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to look like an idiot suggesting them. :lol I'll see if I can find something out. Maybe I'll figure out why my Zoom settings are grayed out, too.

MudShark22
01-25-2013, 04:45 PM
That sucks gopher tits.

Nothing worse than getting a face full o' gopher tits :down

Brian Griffin
01-25-2013, 06:13 PM
It's my dumb ass fault for not checking beforehand but i honestly had no fucking idea these things wouldn't be available on my model.

Were you playing Zeppelins "nobody's fault but mine"?

I have a really tough time believing that the stretch options are visible but disabled - somethings wrong

What model is it?

I have a Samsung 23" model, also the cheapest I could find in my brides office, no such issue

I have DirecTV connected HDMI

BG

walt
01-25-2013, 06:53 PM
Were you playing Zeppelins "nobody's fault but mine"?

I have a really tough time believing that the stretch options are visible but disabled - somethings wrong

What model is it?

I have a Samsung 23" model, also the cheapest I could find in my brides office, no such issue

I have DirecTV connected HDMI

BG

Samsung UN32EH4003

Something is indeed wrong.I'll contact Verizon FIOS,maybe i need a different cable box.I'm open to suggestions and advice.

Brian Griffin
01-25-2013, 07:09 PM
Can you connect it via component and see if it has the same issue?

BG

Klonk
01-26-2013, 10:43 AM
I'm screwed because my Samsung lists all these options,but only 16:9,Zoom 1 and Zoom 2,and 4:3 actually are viable.The other listed options are dark and the cursor skips over them.It would seem my cheaper model doesn't offer Wide Fit,Screen Fit.That sucks gopher tits.It's my dumb ass fault for not checking beforehand but i honestly had no fucking idea these things wouldn't be available on my model.

This is not something wrong, Walt. It's my one knock on the Samsung Plasma I have as well. I believe its an analog/digital thing. If you hook up analog, those options will be available...I think. If I'm watching a Blu-Ray or DVD, all I do is use the player's screen fitting options. Works just fine.

Greg
01-26-2013, 10:52 AM
According to Samsung Support (spelling theirs, not mine):


The menu options you have access to on many Samsung TVs depend upon:

The channel you are watching
The video source you have selected
The screen size you have selected
The resolution of the source you have selected
The format (analog, digital) of the source you have selected
Other menu settings

For any given channel, resolution, screen size, video source, etc., there will almost always be some menu selections that are unavailable.

For example: on many LED TVs

If your current source is HDMI, you cannot access the Channel portion of the menu.
If you are on any source other than "TV" Closed Caption will be grayed out.
If your external device already supports the expanded black level range "HDMI Black Level" will be grayed out.

walt
01-26-2013, 11:26 AM
I'll call someone who knows about this shit.I'm not gonna get stressed out about it.Worse comes to worse and the problem can't be fixed on this model,i'll move this sucker into the bedroom and get a better TV for the living room.

Hal...
01-26-2013, 09:33 PM
Walt, this is what it says in my manual [I checked online for a manual for your TV (link below) and it appears the same]:

Input Source
Picture Size


ATV, AV, Component (480i, 480p)
16:9, Zoom1,
Zoom2, 4:3


DTV (1080i, 1080p), Component (1080i, 1080p),
HDMI (720p, 1080i, 1080p)
16:9, Wide Fit,
4:3, Screen Fit
According to this, you don't have an HD connection to your TV, be it Digital Component or HDMI, otherwise you should get the Wide Fit & Screen Fit options.
Obviously, you're not using an HDMI cable, so what kind of cable are you using? If you're using a digital component cable, then your cable box or DVR probably isn't HD capable. If you don't have either of those, then your signal isn't digital, which I doubt since I'm betting you'd have figured that out already. If you do have a cable box or DVR and you're using an HDMI cable, then the problem may be that your cable company doesn't have the serial number or MAC address of the converter, DVR, or cable card (if you have one of those). I'm basing all of these assumptions on the fact that your TV is auto-detecting the signal, which is why those options are grayed out for you.

Here's the link to the PDF of your manual. The section on sizing is in the top half of the first page, 4th & 5th columns, under "Picture Options".
[Tangent: you know, I'm not thrilled that some companies don't include a book form of a manual, but it doesn't annoy me terribly, either. BUT, the layout of Samsung's manual is totally fucked up! An example of what I'm talking about is the "Channel List Tools Menu". It starts in the last column about 2/3 of the way down in the top half and continues - are you ready? - in the first column in the bottom half. I've seen this with other manuals, too. It wouldn't be so bad if they, at least, folded it so that it wouldn't be so goddamned confusing. :roll
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201206/20120607081611993/%5BUE4003-ZA%5DBN68-04459A-00-ENG-0521.pdf


I believe its an analog/digital thing. If you hook up analog, those options will be available...I think.
I don't know why some options are available and others aren't solely based on signal. The Zoom settings aren't an option for me, but if there was ever a time you'd want to zoom, it's when you see bikini-clad, young hotties on the Travel HD channel.

walt
01-27-2013, 06:10 AM
Thanks for the info Hal.And thanks to all who gave advice.


Note:I am using a HDMI cable.

ronmac
02-04-2013, 08:11 PM
I have a question for the experts here. If I were to use an HDMI cable to hook my DVD player to the TV, would I see a marked difference? The cable guy told me I shouldn't worry about it, unless I have a Blu-Ray player, but he also told me some other questionable info, so I'm not sure if I should believe that.

Firth
02-04-2013, 10:50 PM
I have a question for the experts here. If I were to use an HDMI cable to hook my DVD player to the TV, would I see a marked difference? The cable guy told me I shouldn't worry about it, unless I have a Blu-Ray player, but he also told me some other questionable info, so I'm not sure if I should believe that.

If the the TV is 1080p or HD, it's best to use the player to upconvert the video to 1080p and interface the player to the TV with HDMI. Does your audio come out of your TV speakers, if so HDMI is the easiest way to transfer video and audio. Most HD TV s do not do a good job upconverting video. I use my Pioneer receiver to do the upconversion since it has the same chip as the Oppo players.

Jerjo
02-04-2013, 10:55 PM
I just set up Windows Media Center on my new laptop. I had a neighbor who had a similar setup except he used Plex. Anyway, I linked up the laptop to the plasma through a HDMI cable and it was pretty impressive. Some of the video stuff we had was a little dodgy but some were really sharp. This is going to be fun to play with.

ronmac
02-05-2013, 06:08 PM
How do you use the player to upconvert? I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you talking about a separate device?

Firth
02-05-2013, 10:26 PM
Many but not all DVD players now convert the native 480p format to 1080p by interpolation. Good interpolation of SD ensures a smooth picture on a HD TV. It's amazing how good a DVD looks on a HD TV, however blu ray 1080p is like film on my plasma.

ronmac
02-06-2013, 08:19 AM
Oh, okay. I'm familiar with interpolation. My deck is a bit old, so I'd be surprised if it had that feature. Didn't realize they were only 480p.

Jerjo
03-15-2013, 06:36 PM
OK, here's a question. I just got a set of passive Panasonic 3D glasses. Put the 3D Avengers Blu-ray into my Panasonic 3D-capable DVD player. Told the Panasonic plasma TV it was a 3D signal (through an HDMI cable). And it all looked like ASS. What am I doing wrong?

Klonk
03-15-2013, 08:49 PM
I believe you have to sync the glasses with the TV. I know with my Samsung I have to hold a button on the glasses until the TV tells me they've been recognized.

Jerjo
03-18-2013, 02:42 PM
Less I turn into Rand and start posting tech Qs for every gastric disturbance, I did some digging on the Interwebs. It did take me some burrowing because Panasonic has been a little less than forward with selling these passive glasses. But anyway, while they say that the glasses work for all of their 2012 TVs what they don't say is that these DO NOT work on 2012 plasma screens. So now I'll have to buy the active glasses, which cost considerably more. Which I would have done provided that Panasonic or Amazon had been a little more explicit in saying what works with what. Fuckers.

JKL2000
03-19-2013, 04:51 PM
Apparently some people have found the picture from Blu-Ray players to look too much like "video" rather than film. Is this actually because of a bad match with the monitor, like the monitor isn't HD or something?

ronmac
03-19-2013, 05:21 PM
Apparently some people have found the picture from Blu-Ray players to look too much like "video" rather than film. Is this actually because of a bad match with the monitor, like the monitor isn't HD or something?

It might have more to do with the LCD versus the plasma. Not sure, though.

JKL2000
03-19-2013, 05:55 PM
Oh, that might be it!

Firth
03-22-2013, 12:40 PM
I noticed Samsung is now making a big splash with a new Plasma design.

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/audio-visual/televisions/plasma-and-lcd-tvs/samsung-51f8500-plasma-tv-1124079/review