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Sean
10-31-2012, 06:39 PM
Actually, there isn't any. BUT IF THERE WAS it would go here, I imagine....

wideopenears
11-01-2012, 01:02 PM
Actually, there isn't any. BUT IF THERE WAS it would go here, I imagine....

Well, I hear the 400-disc version of Lark's has shipped.......I expect reviews sometime next year.

NogbadTheBad
11-01-2012, 01:04 PM
Well, I hear the 400-disc version of Lark's has shipped.......I expect reviews sometime next year.Mine will be on order as soon as i remortgage the house

Just Eric
11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Actually, there isn't any. BUT IF THERE WAS it would go here, I imagine....

A new King Crimson release??? :up Is Gabriel singing? Will there be mellotron and capes?

mozo-pg
11-02-2012, 12:14 PM
My first thread. This is definitely where I'd like to start. I love me some KC and Mr. Fripp.

strawberrybrick
11-02-2012, 12:23 PM
Quote works easily.

But all text is quoted, not just some (whatever you highlight)

NogbadTheBad
11-02-2012, 12:38 PM
But all text is quoted, not just some (whatever you highlight)Yeah, I ended up editing with the copy to break up the quotes.

bondegezou
11-04-2012, 02:55 PM
I have, so far, listened to most of the first disc of the Larks box set. At this rate, I will have listened to the whole thing by February 2013.

Henry

MissKittysMom
11-04-2012, 03:13 PM
The new Crimson will be ProjeKCt Non-Crim, all the musicians considered or invited to join, but who were never told the secret handshake: Judy Dyble, Elton John, Jimmi Hendrix, Keith Tippett, David Sylvian.

zombywoof
11-04-2012, 03:14 PM
I have, so far, listened to most of the first disc of the Larks box set. At this rate, I will have listened to the whole thing by February 2013.

Henry

So how is it?

Crystal Plumage
11-04-2012, 04:19 PM
Just posting in this very thread to see if all works! And I love me some KC.

N_Singh
11-04-2012, 05:35 PM
Oh my first post! How come everyone's post count =0???? On topic- still waiting for my Larks box

Sean
11-04-2012, 05:45 PM
We don't use post counts here. For PE it's about quality not quantity so we are not going to count them. Counting often inspires people to post more to bolster their rank. We plan to skip that.

zombywoof
11-04-2012, 07:36 PM
We don't use post counts here. For PE it's about quality not quantity so we are not going to count them. Counting often inspires people to post more to bolster their rank. We plan to skip that.

Oh yes, if you want to see a Forum Gone Wrong, look at ProgArchives' 'Shred' rooms. They exist for the sole purpose of increasing someone's rank. We're all people here. No need to feel inferior or superior based on how much someone else has posted nonsense.

Wisdomview
11-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Well, I really dig the 5.1 mix of LTiA.

CaffieneMan
11-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Had my hopes up for a second! Dashed!

KC news that would really make my day is to hear about a new album

:ipa

Splicer
11-05-2012, 02:03 PM
I am eagerly awaiting the ten disc set of "Groon" outtakes.

ItalProgRules
11-05-2012, 02:11 PM
We don't use post counts here. For PE it's about quality not quantity so we are not going to count them. Counting often inspires people to post more to bolster their rank. We plan to skip that.

LOL I tried to post less, so I wouldn't exceed my weekly post limit. But really, I'm just typing this to test the quote feature :lol

Sordel
11-05-2012, 06:25 PM
Well, I really dig the 5.1 mix of LTiA.

Yes, the 5.1 is great, but so is the new stereo mix. The title track may just be my favourite track on any of the KC remasters so far.

polmico
11-05-2012, 08:03 PM
Not KC, but the Travis/Fripp album has been released. I ordered mine at the beginning of October from DGM Live, so I should receive it in a few months. ;)

NogbadTheBad
11-05-2012, 11:26 PM
The Fripp Travis will be in my next order

Digital_Man
11-05-2012, 11:40 PM
I just started a King Crimson group on here. It's invite only(for now anyway) but send me a pm if you want in.

Digital_Man
11-06-2012, 12:18 AM
OK, I changed the group to moderated since I don't really want to guess who's a KC fan and who isn't. So anyone can join but I have to approve of you first.

jkelman
11-06-2012, 02:40 AM
I just started a King Crimson group on here. It's invite only(for now anyway) but send me a pm if you want in.
Where do I find this group, as I'd like in (if you'll use me.... :))

Crystal Plumage
11-06-2012, 05:03 AM
Yeah, where to find said group?

bondegezou
11-06-2012, 07:13 AM
So how is it?

What the box set format does is make one engage with the material in a context. So, I'm on the first show, which is the only one I had before, but I'm more aware now that this is one of the first performances by this line-up.

Lots of random thoughts so far. Some of the improvs on disc 1 show a continuity with the early 1972 line-up. Some of the improvs are also not very good! We idolise this band, but they're still finding their way.

Some reviews have pointed to Jamie Muir as the revelation, but for me, it's Cross who stands out so far. It also occurs to me that while Bill Bruford very much saw himself as the apprentice, he was surely the most famous person in the band after Fripp: Close to the Edge has just gone top 5 on both sides of the Atlantic!

Henry

gimmetrons
11-06-2012, 01:16 PM
I await the edited, condensed, only 50-disc, Steven Wilson treatment of Thrakattack.

100423
11-06-2012, 04:07 PM
Yeah, where to find said group?

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/group.php

Haruspex Carnage
11-07-2012, 01:35 AM
Yes, let me in too...c'mon i studied with two of them!

Digital_Man
11-07-2012, 02:02 AM
You're in now. Thanks!

Dave (in MA)
11-07-2012, 02:44 AM
I await the edited, condensed, only 50-disc, Steven Wilson treatment of Thrakattack.
Laugh all you want, but I would like that.

Hobo Chang Ba
11-07-2012, 02:52 AM
I like King Crimson because of the music they make without using too much flute or ocarina.

Trane
11-07-2012, 04:24 AM
Yes, the 5.1 is great, but so is the new stereo mix. The title track may just be my favourite track on any of the KC remasters so far.

Yeah, I got the standard 40th Anniv version with the CD/DVD thing (I only bought Red previously and heard the debut bonus alt tracks

But the 40th LTIA is superb (well in terms of bionus...don't have a 5.1 system) ... I'll start a thread about it ASAIC.

NogbadTheBad
11-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Apparently any music based groups are going to go away as it takes traffic away from the main page so I guess all us Crimson fans should continue to post here

notallwhowander
11-08-2012, 07:15 PM
I just got the Larks' Mothership in the mail! :cool

Now, I have to wait until Christmas. :drool

Sean
11-08-2012, 07:28 PM
Apparently any music based groups are going to go away as it takes traffic away from the main page so I guess all us Crimson fans should continue to post here:up

Dave (in MA)
11-08-2012, 10:13 PM
I just got the Larks' Mothership in the mail! :cool

Now, I have to wait until Christmas. :drool
I just got mine today. Screw waiting, today is Christmas. I dove immediately into the The Session Reels. :beer

bill g
11-08-2012, 10:56 PM
And there is a nice new Fripp/Theo video in a nearby thread.

Digital_Man
11-09-2012, 12:41 AM
You guys can post in the group also as long as Sean allows groups to exist. He's made some idle threats but so far hasn't put his foot down. I don't see the problem with having groups that are of bands that most of us know. This leaves more room to talk about the lesser known and obscure groups in the main boards. I don't think it takes away anything. People can still post in the main boards. They can still post in the groups too(at least for now). The way I see it is having some groups that focus on the big six bands is a win win.

jkelman
11-09-2012, 02:08 AM
http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/group.phplet me in too, please!

bondegezou
11-09-2012, 04:06 AM
Apparently any music based groups are going to go away as it takes traffic away from the main page so I guess all us Crimson fans should continue to post here

Good decision. PE works because everything's together on the front page. The group system squirrels away discussion in hard-to-find nooks and crannies.

Henry

Digital_Man
11-09-2012, 01:00 PM
I've changed the group so that now you can just join without waiting. And no it isn't going anywhere at least not until it(and all the other music related groups)are closed down.



Good decision. PE works because everything's together on the front page. The group system squirrels away discussion in hard-to-find nooks and crannies.

Henry


It's not a decision that has been made yet so please let's not jump the gun. And the funny thing is that you are in my YES group Henry so please don't be hypocritical here. If you feel that way you should leave these groups other wise what you say here doesn't mean much. In other words practice what you preach.

I know on the old PE I had seen complaints about too many Yes threads or too many threads by the well known bands. Well my groups can help to eliminate that and reduce the number of threads by these rather obvious bands. Trust me there will still be threads(and right now there are)by these bands. Maybe there can be some unofficial rule(or official)that if it's a band you have heard on the radio or has at least one gold selling album then you can start a group. :)

bondegezou
11-10-2012, 07:19 AM
It's not a decision that has been made yet so please let's not jump the gun. And the funny thing is that you are in my YES group Henry so please don't be hypocritical here. If you feel that way you should leave these groups other wise what you say here doesn't mean much. In other words practice what you preach.

If these groups are going to be a feature of the new PE, I would like to be in some of them, but I'd rather they're not a feature of the new PE. I don't think that's hypocritical.

Henry

wilcox660
11-10-2012, 11:47 AM
Did I post?

Sean
11-10-2012, 12:52 PM
You might as well start winding them down. The decision has been made. I still feel they detract from what should be on the main board. If I need to go and delete them I will, but I'd rather you take care of it, Mike.

Digital_Man
11-10-2012, 05:47 PM
You might as well start winding them down. The decision has been made. I still feel they detract from what should be on the main board. If I need to go and delete them I will, but I'd rather you take care of it, Mike.

Well, I'd rather you didn't delete them.

If I deleted them then that's like me saying I agree with your decision when I don't. All I ask is that you give me a heads up or maybe a pm before you do delete them.

But, I have to say that I hope that when you do delete these threads you delete all the music threads and not just the ones I started because there are others.

gregory
11-12-2012, 04:53 PM
So what's new of King Crimson, is that 15CDs box set of LTiA...I recieved my CD/DVD edition today, listened to the CD, and I have mixed feelings on what I've heard, meaning the remix. I think the culminations, the loud bits in the first part of LTIA sound softer, smoother, as if a bit distanced. Some wild bass lines on Easy Money are also calmed down a bit. it seems that Wilson tried to limit the wide dynamic range of the original.

jkelman
11-13-2012, 08:09 AM
So what's new of King Crimson, is that 15CDs box set of LTiA...I recieved my CD/DVD edition today, listened to the CD, and I have mixed feelings on what I've heard, meaning the remix. I think the culminations, the loud bits in the first part of LTIA sound softer, smoother, as if a bit distanced. Some wild bass lines on Easy Money are also calmed down a bit. it seems that Wilson tried to limit the wide dynamic range of the original.
Actually, that may have been in the mastering, not the mixing, for which SW had no responsibility ...

Sid Smith
11-13-2012, 03:37 PM
I don't have any news but thought I'd drop in and say hello.

Crystal Plumage
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Hi

NogbadTheBad
11-13-2012, 04:07 PM
Hello Sid

If you don't have any news then I guess nothing is happening :)

notallwhowander
11-13-2012, 07:44 PM
Hey Sid, is there any news on the second edition of your book?

enpdllp
11-13-2012, 08:02 PM
Still waiting for my copy of LTIA CD/DVD-A from DGM...:mad

NogbadTheBad
11-13-2012, 08:04 PM
Hey Sid, is there any news on the second edition of your book?

It's on my Christmas list, i just don't know which Christmas

Trane
11-14-2012, 10:03 AM
We don't use post counts here. For PE it's about quality not quantity so we are not going to count them. Counting often inspires people to post more to bolster their rank. We plan to skip that.

Well having read the three pages of this thread, this one misses the mark by a wide margin:p:lol

Not that my post will raise the average level of this thread:oops


Anyway, I'll see if I can compare the 30th remaster and 40th remix tonight

ca1ore
11-14-2012, 12:08 PM
Still waiting for my copy of LTIA CD/DVD-A from DGM...:mad

Yep, me too! Apparently mine is not even in the mail yet. Only good thing is that DGM is quite prompt about replying to my queries - bad news is that they have yet to reply with good news.

kenneth8446
11-14-2012, 07:14 PM
Just received my LTIA mega box last night. Started with the 2012 remix. Very interesting and revealing. I am hearing things I didn't hear in the 30th Anniv remaster. The journey begins!

enpdllp
11-14-2012, 09:03 PM
Yep, me too! Apparently mine is not even in the mail yet. Only good thing is that DGM is quite prompt about replying to my queries - bad news is that they have yet to reply with good news.

They were quite prompt responding to my inquiry on the status of my order (LTIA CD/DVD-A) about three weeks ago when some folks started reporting they received their box sets and CD/DVD-A sets from Burning Shed. At that time they told me that the sets were manufactured separately in each territory and they received the parts later in the US. They also said that the sets typically took much longer to manufacture in the US than in Europe and the sets were going to be shipped by the end of the last week in October. Its been two weeks since the end of October and according to their site my order still has not been shipped. I asked them on the status of my order last Friday and still have not received a response. I does not make any sense that Burning Shed has been shipping their LTIA box sets and CD/DVD-A sets for at least three weeks and DGM has not even shipped the CD/DVD-A sets. I don't think I will be placing any more orders from DGM.:mad

polmico
11-14-2012, 09:23 PM
If it weren't for the KCCCs, I'd never order from DGM.

scorched earth
11-15-2012, 04:36 PM
The US release date for the CD/DVD-A set has been pushed back twice from the original date of Oct. 30, first to Nov. 13, then to Nov. 27. Given that this has happened regularly for these releases I suppose the question is why can't a realistic release date be set in the first place.

tormato
11-15-2012, 05:22 PM
They were quite prompt responding to my inquiry on the status of my order (LTIA CD/DVD-A) about three weeks ago when some folks started reporting they received their box sets and CD/DVD-A sets from Burning Shed. At that time they told me that the sets were manufactured separately in each territory and they received the parts later in the US. They also said that the sets typically took much longer to manufacture in the US than in Europe and the sets were going to be shipped by the end of the last week in October. Its been two weeks since the end of October and according to their site my order still has not been shipped. I asked them on the status of my order last Friday and still have not received a response. I does not make any sense that Burning Shed has been shipping their LTIA box sets and CD/DVD-A sets for at least three weeks and DGM has not even shipped the CD/DVD-A sets. I don't think I will be placing any more orders from DGM.:mad

"Will ship very early next week, at the latest."

That was the response I got last week. I still have yet to see it. This is the second time this year DGM has done this (the other being the Argentina DVDs). You would think that DGM would have the common courtesy to update purchasers on the order status instead of having customers have to pester them. I prefer ordering directly from the artist when possible, but from now on its Best Buy or Burning Shed for KC related releases.

enpdllp
11-15-2012, 05:46 PM
The US release date for the CD/DVD-A set has been pushed back twice from the original date of Oct. 30, first to Nov. 13, then to Nov. 27. Given that this has happened regularly for these releases I suppose the question is why can't a realistic release date be set in the first place.

I remember seeing the release date for the CD/DVD-A as early as of the 23rd of October, although someone on the LTIA thread on the old PE pointed out that the original release date was the previous week. Not the best way to conduct business.

polmico
11-22-2012, 12:56 PM
"Will ship very early next week, at the latest."
.

I received a similar email after inquiring about my order or the new Travis/Fripp and the new KCCC release, an order I placed on 10.12.

What the hell is up with these guys?

Rand Kelly
11-23-2012, 06:37 AM
Still on the fence about spending $100+ on the Mothership Box or $20 for the 2-disc. Anyone wanna inform me?

calyx
11-23-2012, 06:43 AM
Still on the fence about spending $100+ on the Mothership Box or $20 for the 2-disc. Anyone wanna inform me?

I bought the box, which for me, being a faithful customer of the KCCC and DGMLive, meant buying a lot of live stuff all over again. Plus I don't own a 5.1 set-up. So the meat of the box for me is the stereo remix, and the "Keep That One, Nick" CD of studio sessions, which as John Kelman has said multiple times, is probably worth buying the box for. The CD of alternate mixes I didn't enjoy quite so much. It's mostly mixes of the familiar versions that lose one or two instruments, with the exception of nice alt takes of "Book Of Saturday" and "Easy Money". This you get with the 2-disc version, as you do the Beat Club footage. This makes the 2-disc version a must-buy if you can't or won't afford the box.

Rand Kelly
11-23-2012, 08:37 PM
Thanks Calyx.

NogbadTheBad
11-20-2014, 08:39 AM
For those of you wondering when a Live release from the last tour will be available the answer is ........ January!!

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=4951


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXJ3cJ9Et-Y&list=UUBxEf1UWDjbIEoh2MAQR7zQ

Phlakaton
11-20-2014, 08:51 AM
Kick ass!

Rand Kelly
11-20-2014, 09:03 AM
40 min. Mini-album? Van Halen's records with Roth were all under 40 min.

Jerjo
11-20-2014, 09:26 AM
It's a hummer!

Mister Triscuits
11-20-2014, 10:03 AM
40 min. Mini-album? Van Halen's records with Roth were all under 40 min.

Hell, Red was only 40 minutes. I wonder why Fripp is saddling this with the "mini-album" tag, which makes it sound like it somehow doesn't count as an album. And I also wonder why it is only 40 minutes with all the great and unique stuff in the set list they had to choose from. Was there really only that much that Fripp was satisfied with? No matter, I'll buy this in a heartbeat--and try to think of it as a "real" album, no matter what Fripp says!

Dave (in MA)
11-20-2014, 10:28 AM
Hell, Red was only 40 minutes. I wonder why Fripp is saddling this with the "mini-album" tag, which makes it sound like it somehow doesn't count as an album. And I also wonder why it is only 40 minutes with all the great and unique stuff in the set list they had to choose from. Was there really only that much that Fripp was satisfied with? No matter, I'll buy this in a heartbeat--and try to think of it as a "real" album, no matter what Fripp says!I didn't exhaustively review their discography, but it looks like the last 2 releases under 50 minutes (Happy with What You Have to Be Happy With and Vroom) were also referred to as mini-albums or EPs.

timmy
11-20-2014, 10:55 AM
Huzzah!
or
Hummer!

Phlakaton
11-20-2014, 11:30 AM
So now we cant be happy with an album at 40 mins? When I think about the latest Mats/Morgan Band album being 41 mins I get a bit sad... and yet - there is so much happening that it feels... like and hour and half. Which - is GREAT! I'll listen to whatever shows up. I'm sure there is plenty to be heard later down the road. Toe in the pool. :P

JKL2000
11-20-2014, 11:51 AM
Woo-hoo! Thanks, Ian.

And don't miss the photo of a gloating John Kelman further down the page! :)

MudShark22
11-20-2014, 11:58 AM
As pointed out on the DGM guestbook; it has been somewhat of a recent KC tradition that mini-LPs or EPs or whatever usually precede (e.g. help fund) new studio material.
Vroom is a great example; Level 5 is another.

So, while I wanted the entire Saturday NYC show as a release (and maybe it will appear later on); I can purchase the January release with the likely outcome that it will not only serve as a 'taste' of what the Mark8 version can do; but will help ensure I hear more of that lineup.

NogbadTheBad
11-20-2014, 12:06 PM
I'm guessing there will be more live material released later.

jeffo621
11-20-2014, 12:51 PM
Autobuy - I'm sure that full live sets will be following by the Spring - also an autobuy. I'm still getting goosebumps when I mentally revisit the Philly concert.

I am curious about the other 28 minutes or so of the album - studio material? more live stuff? I don't particularly care

Hobo Chang Ba
11-20-2014, 07:57 PM
Physical format please!

And there is a lot to hope for that makes the cut...but I hope the new stuff certainly did.

musicislife
11-20-2014, 08:19 PM
I suspect Fripp is putting this out as a teaser for the Euro audiences without giving away the farm just yet.

notallwhowander
11-30-2014, 10:51 PM
It's probably a min-album vs. a full document of the tour. That would probably be a two-disc release, at least.

Dusty Chalk
12-01-2014, 12:57 PM
I'm still getting goosebumps when I mentally revisit the Philly concert. I was at that show, too. Cheers.

NogbadTheBad
03-27-2015, 03:51 PM
Looks like new material and a live album of a complete live set from the US tour are in the works.


http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?entry=28930

Excited. Dribble.

polmico
03-27-2015, 03:53 PM
Good news indeed!

Phlakaton
03-27-2015, 05:40 PM
Weee!

JKL2000
03-28-2015, 07:44 PM
I'm dribbling too, but it's not from my mouth.

This IS pretty good news.

Obscured
03-28-2015, 10:37 PM
Interesting that the upcoming complete live album from the recent tour will be made up from all the gigs. Just give me the whole freakin' 2014 bundle!

jcarr73729
03-29-2015, 08:33 AM
Interesting that the upcoming complete live album from the recent tour will be made up from all the gigs. Just give me the whole freakin' 2014 bundle!

I believe they have been recording concerts on multi-track (older recordings were mere stereo soundboards) for quite some time, so it would take quite a lot of effort and time to mix and pull together the 2014 bundle. I doubt the number of downloads would pay for that prolonged mixing at DGM HQ, so I presume this compilation would both gauge demand and pay the wages for that eventual mixing marathon.

jkelman
03-29-2015, 09:53 AM
I believe they have been recording concerts on multi-track (older recordings were mere stereo soundboards) for quite some time, so it would take quite a lot of effort and time to mix and pull together the 2014 bundle. I doubt the number of downloads would pay for that prolonged mixing at DGM HQ, so I presume this compilation would both gauge demand and pay the wages for that eventual mixing marathon.
Just to toes who were so outraged at the brevity of the first live album: I explained that doing what Jakko did in the time allotted was monumental and the 41 minutes we got? Just the beginning. Happy to see someone else acknowledging the time that needs to go into mixing multitrack recordings such as this....and that' as I predicteded, Live at the Orpheum was just the first shot off the bow.

And new Mateial too? Great news all around!

N_Singh
03-29-2015, 11:38 AM
Just to toes who were so outraged at the brevity of the first live album: I explained that doing what Jakko did in the time allotted was monumental and the 41 minutes we got? Just the beginning. Happy to see someone else acknowledging the time that needs to go into mixing multitrack recordings such as this....and that' as I predicteded, Live at the Orpheum was just the first shot off the bow.

And new Mateial too? Great news all around!

And not just new material. But apparently a couple stabs at a blues.

Spiral
03-29-2015, 11:51 AM
And not just new material. But apparently a couple stabs at a blues.
Blues as Crimson plays it, that is. I'm intrigued by the idea, but then I've also liked "Potato Pie" a lot more than apparently most.

tallliman
03-29-2015, 12:08 PM
The brass and second guitar solos in Starless are a blues progression. I can understand excitement about new material but don't understand why a crimson take on a blues would be special or new.

Haruspex Carnage
03-30-2015, 01:05 PM
Pictures and Schizoid have blues motifs as well...someone pointed out to me 3oaPP, the song, is a Cm blues progression wise as well...

tallliman
03-30-2015, 02:07 PM
^^ Forgot about those. 3OAPP's chorus is also a i iv v in Am.

g.bremer
03-30-2015, 09:39 PM
Blues as Crimson plays it, that is. I'm intrigued by the idea, but then I've also liked "Potato Pie" a lot more than apparently most.

"Potato Pie" has always been a guilty pleasure of mine.

Obscured
04-01-2015, 06:47 PM
King Crimson to open for themselves with acoustic set- http://dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=5095
***KC Unplugged

:: Posted by Sid Smith on Wed., Apr 1, 2015

The support act for the forthcoming King Crimson tour will be King Crimson - unplugged!

In addition to Crimso playing a 20 minute set of KC-related material on acoustic instruments at each of the dates already announced, the group are also also to make low-key acoustic only appearance at this year's Green Man Festival, as a warm-up for the KC tour proper later that month.

This perhaps surprising announcement comes after an equipment failure at last week’s full rehearsals. While the electrics were being fixed, Fripp and Jakszyk reverted to acoustic instruments in order to carry on their work. “We turned a disadvantage into an advantage” comments Fripp in his April 1st dairy published later today.

There’s no indication yet as to which numbers will be covered but the phrase “KC-related” opens up the possibility of Guitar Craft repertoire as well as solo material from Jakszyk and Rieflin also under consideration. ***
(April Fools?! or does Fripp actually break out "Peace:A Theme" to start the evening off?)

Haruspex Carnage
04-01-2015, 07:04 PM
April Fools...where's the diary entry?

Facelift
04-01-2015, 07:17 PM
Seems like as good candidate for an April Fools joke as someone as up-tight as Robert Fripp is able to muster.

Most other bands could make such an announcement and nobody would bat an eye. With Fripp, this qualifies as daring hijinks.

polmico
12-07-2015, 06:07 PM
Actually, there isn't any. BUT IF THERE WAS it would go here, I imagine....

Times do change, don't they.

Anyway, KCCC #42 is finally getting a release.

Here's the particulars from DGM:
"Details coming soon for this long awaited release, and we will be adding this to the shop this month as a pre order. For those keeping track, we have released Clubs through 47 but 42 was previously put on hold, and we are thrilled it is finally being released."

Looks like there's a new club to join, too:
"We know that many of you miss the early days of the King Crimson Collectors' Club, and with the number of Club releases being far less frequent, bringing back this in its old format did not make sense. We have also had requests for a t-shirt Club, but that too seemed a bit limited. So, after much thought, we have created a hybrid Club, offering tremendous savings to our most avid customers. The Frequent Flier program remains a free club offering discounts and access to exclusive items, and we have made absolutely no changes to this program. As noted in the ornament description above, Frequent Fliers automatically receive a $5.00 discount on this item, and will receive exclusive savings on future box sets as we have done in the past.

"The Schizoid Club is a way for our customers who tend to purchase most items we offer to save a bundle. The Club runs on a yearly basis, but anyone signing up this December will receive a few additional weeks of Club savings as memberships will not expire until January 1, 2017.

"Included in the Club will be three t-shirt designs, solely available to Club members, released at three times through the year. We will send these three designs to you, and no shipping or handling will be charged. Members may opt to receive in stock designs in lieu of each Club shirt design, should they so choose.

"Schizoid Club members will also be given a 10% discount on the sub total (excluding s&h) of each order they place, and this is in addition to other discounts being offered.

"Also, Schizoid Club members will receive a 25% discount on all KCCC releases. As mentioned, we will be releasing Club 42 soon."

Well, less interested in this new club, but new KCCC releases would be excellent--though I suppose there's no specific indication that that is happening.

http://shop.schizoidshop.com/schizoid-club-p1533.aspx

Paulrus
12-07-2015, 06:26 PM
(April Fools?! or does Fripp actually break out "Peace:A Theme" to start the evening off?)

I'd like to see an unplugged rendition of "One In A Million". ;)

Spiral
12-08-2015, 08:16 AM
or does Fripp actually break out "Peace:A Theme" to start the evening off?)
Damn. You really should have made that joke about "Sheltering Sky" or "Seizure" instead.

Obscured
12-08-2015, 08:27 AM
Damn. You really should have made that joke about "Sheltering Sky" or "Seizure" instead.

Seems they've added "Peace-An End" to their sets.

Spiral
12-08-2015, 09:42 AM
My point exactly.

groon
12-09-2015, 10:55 AM
I'd like to see an unplugged rendition of "One In A Million". ;)

+1 :up

Obscured
12-24-2015, 08:11 PM
Seems they've added "Peace-An End" to their sets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftsQFG3S9XM

Spiral
12-28-2015, 10:01 AM
I've never cared much for the versions with words, but they do nail that one.

JKL2000
12-29-2015, 07:25 PM
I noticed that Mellow Records has a lot of stuff on Bandcamp, and one thing they have is KC Live in Albany 2014. WTF? Sounds like a boot.

http://mellowrecords.bandcamp.com/album/king-crimson-live-in-albany-2014

tallliman
12-30-2015, 07:06 AM
I noticed that Mellow Records has a lot of stuff on Bandcamp, and one thing they have is KC Live in Albany 2014. WTF? Sounds like a boot.

http://mellowrecords.bandcamp.com/album/king-crimson-live-in-albany-2014

It's not there now!

flytomars
12-30-2015, 10:28 AM
Dont mess with The Fripp!! :P

JKL2000
12-30-2015, 10:27 PM
I noticed that Mellow Records has a lot of stuff on Bandcamp, and one thing they have is KC Live in Albany 2014. WTF? Sounds like a boot.

http://mellowrecords.bandcamp.com/album/king-crimson-live-in-albany-2014


It's not there now!

Doctor Moroni must be reading PE these days. It was there when I posted that. Mellow has a lot of other live bootlegs for sale on Bandcamp. Very strange.

The Czar
01-03-2016, 10:51 PM
When is Three of a perfect pair or Beat going to come out in 5.1

JKL2000
01-03-2016, 11:10 PM
When is Three of a perfect pair or Beat going to come out in 5.1

When Fripp freezes over.

Onomatopoeic
01-04-2016, 01:15 AM
When is Three of a perfect pair or Beat going to come out in 5.1


Wish I knew that, too -- but only as far as Three Of A Perfect Pair goes.

Beat can stay stereo and un-remastered as far as I care. :mad :lol :mad

Onomatopoeic
01-04-2016, 01:17 AM
I noticed that Mellow Records has a lot of stuff on Bandcamp, and one thing they have is KC Live in Albany 2014. WTF? Sounds like a boot.

http://mellowrecords.bandcamp.com/album/king-crimson-live-in-albany-2014



If that's Mellow Records in Italy, I'd be wary.

unclemeat
01-05-2016, 03:47 AM
Preorder :
http://shop.schizoidshop.com/king-crimson---cc---rehearsals--blows-may-november-1983-p1536.aspx

CLUB42
King Crimson
Rehearsals & Blows
May - November 1983

1 Adrian And Robert
2 Slow Groove
3 Funk Groove
4 Sleepish
5 Slow Sleepless
6 An Entry Of The Crims
7 Sacramento
8 Perfecting Three Of A Perfect Pair
9 Open Hearted
10 Working On Sleepless
11 Easy To Solo Over
12 Do You Dig Me?
13 Industrial
14 Steinberger Melody
15 Shidare Zakura

Adrian Belew - guitar
Robert Fripp - guitar
Tony Levin - bass guitar & Stick
Bill Bruford - drums

Taken together with The Champaign-Urbana Sessions (CLUB21), the work-in-progress sketches, outtakes, bright ideas, dead-ends and cul-de-sacs gathered here provide a kind of counter-factual, alternative history to King Crimson’s catalogue; a shadow album that traces those points where things came together or fell apart in the trying, where ideas either bloomed or withered.
Speaking after the release of Three Of A Perfect Pair in 1984, Bill Bruford commented upon the album that took the group a year not so much to make as it did to find. “It did take quite a while...It’s kind of the fourth album with this version of the band. You see, we recorded one LP and more or less dumped it. We couldn’t quite see the way it was working out. When we reconvened the problems we had just evaporated! Sometimes, time is the only thing you need. Just to get away. And then suddenly the project was on its feet again and we knew where it was going and what to do.”

polmico
01-09-2016, 03:56 PM
^ A no-brainer order for me.

NogbadTheBad
02-29-2016, 12:00 PM
More Live release news

It’s a fabbo-to-the-max, triple whammy of a day for King Crimson fans. Not only is the first in-concert download by the current line-up now available via DGMLive, a mail-order only, 2-disc official collectors bootleg edition of the gig will be released on the 17th March.
If that’s not enough, then how about a full live album gathering together the complete King Crimson setlist compiled from numerous nights and selected performances. In response to overwhelming demand for video of the group’s shows, the multi-disc set will come with selected in-concert footage.
This major release will be made available to coincide with the start of King Crimson’s return to live performance later in September 2016.
If you don’t want or can’t wait until March or September, you can download King Crimson’s performance at Toronto’s Queen Elizabeth Theatre on November 20th, 2015 today. A superb example of the band in full-flight, it features some of the best-loved pieces in King Crimson’s catalogue as well as new material such as Radical Action To Unseat The Hold Of Monkey Mind and Meltdown. You can download it here right now.

http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=35&show=2011

This Official Collectors’ Bootleg captures King Crimson on a single night in the middle of the band’s Canadian tour in November 2015. With the exception of one small edit following an announcement before the band take the stage, the running time of this concert is exactly as it was heard in the hall by those fortunate enough to have been there. Even by the high standards set by King Crimson’s current line-up, this concert was agreed by all involved to have that extra special ingredient, making it the perfect choice when seeking an official release to counter the poorly recorded bootlegs that have begun to circulate.
Featuring the recorded debut of new material such as Meltdown & Radical Action, the three drummer percussion pieces Hell Hounds of Krim & Banshee Legs Bell Hassle & a variety of King Crimson classics – including material from In The Court Of The Crimson King performed & recorded live for the first time in decades, a return to the live set of Easy Money for the first time since 1974 & more recent powerhouse pieces such as Level Five & VROOOM – all material that the seven piece King Crimson has made very much its own in an absurdly short time of touring.
The first release by the current band was the 2014 mini-album, “Live at the Orpheum”. This autumn, they will be releasing their long-awaited and much anticipated first major album – a comprehensive live release, taking the best performances of each song from the extensive set list (which changes nightly) & also including footage of selected performances. It will be released to coincide with the band’s 2016 European tour, which begins in the UK with two concerts at the Waterside Theatre in Aylesbury on September 4th & 5th, the band’s only UK dates for 2016.
For those who cannot wait until the autumn, this Collector’s Edition makes the perfect teaser.
The first full concert release by the current line-up of King Crimson will be released via mail order on March 17th. You can pre-order here:

Inner Knot (USA customers)
http://shop.schizoidshop.com/featured-items-c12.aspx

Burning Shed (UK and Europe)
https://www.burningshed.com/store/kingcrimson/

Mel Collins: Saxes & flute, Robert Fripp: Guitar & keyboards, Gavin Harrison: Drums, Jakko Jakszyk: Guitar & voice, Tony Levin: Basses & stick, Pat Mastelotto: Drums, Bill Rieflin: Drums & keyboards
The tracklisting is as follows
Disc 1:
1 Threshold Soundscape
2 Larks’ Tongues In Aspic Part I
3 Pictures Of A City
4 VROOOM
5 Radical Action (To Unseat the
Hold of Monkey Mind)
6 Meltdown
7 Hell Hounds of Krim
8 The ConstruKction of Light
9 Red
10 Epitaph
Disc 2:
1 Banshee Legs Bell Hassle
2 Easy Money
3 Level Five
4 The Letters
5 Sailor's Tale
6 Starless
7 The Court of the Crimson King
8 21st Century Schizoid Man

6992

NogbadTheBad
02-29-2016, 12:16 PM
I'll probably go download on this one.

Spiral
02-29-2016, 12:23 PM
So it leaves out one of the new tunes in favor of (sigh) Court and Epitaph. How characteristically perverse.

Yeah, I know it's based on quality of the performance more than the setlist. I know I'll want it in some form, but don't quite know which.

Mister Triscuits
02-29-2016, 12:32 PM
So it leaves out one of the new tunes in favor of (sigh) Court and Epitaph. How characteristically perverse.

Yeah, I know it's based on quality of the performance more than the setlist.

Naturally you can't get everything with a single show release. But it sounds like we will get everything on the September release, so best of both worlds.

calyx
02-29-2016, 12:34 PM
Just bought the concert as a DGMLive download. 10$ seems a pretty good deal for a complete show. And it's the right setlist as far as I'm concerned. Yes, one of the new songs is missing, but all the classics I want are there (I've heard far too many "LTiAII" to bother at this point).

unclemeat
02-29-2016, 12:41 PM
Also in the pipeline :
"DGM is planning a Guitar Craft Box Set for release in October 2017 to include a comprehensive selection of recordings and videos from throughout the period."

Spiral
02-29-2016, 01:05 PM
Naturally you can't get everything with a single show release. But it sounds like we will get everything on the September release, so best of both worlds.
That's a pretty good idea (and nice of them to let us know what's being planned). Probably the thing that's tilting me toward the download this time, too.

taliesin
02-29-2016, 04:13 PM
Having been at the show this is great news - it felt like a killer show on the night and nice to see somebody agrees with me.

polmico
02-29-2016, 05:10 PM
Ordered. Duh.

mogrooves
02-29-2016, 05:18 PM
I'm surprised this group isn't playing "Cirkus"--afaik--the one song from that LP they used to do.

polmico
02-29-2016, 06:12 PM
"Cirkus" would indeed be nice, but don't malign (or forget) "Lady of the Dancing Water" performed by the Islands band.

ProgArtist
02-29-2016, 06:21 PM
Preorder :
http://shop.schizoidshop.com/king-crimson---cc---rehearsals--blows-may-november-1983-p1536.aspx

CLUB42
King Crimson
Rehearsals & Blows
May - November 1983

1 Adrian And Robert
2 Slow Groove
3 Funk Groove
4 Sleepish
5 Slow Sleepless
6 An Entry Of The Crims
7 Sacramento
8 Perfecting Three Of A Perfect Pair
9 Open Hearted
10 Working On Sleepless
11 Easy To Solo Over
12 Do You Dig Me?
13 Industrial
14 Steinberger Melody
15 Shidare Zakura

Adrian Belew - guitar
Robert Fripp - guitar
Tony Levin - bass guitar & Stick
Bill Bruford - drums

Taken together with The Champaign-Urbana Sessions (CLUB21), the work-in-progress sketches, outtakes, bright ideas, dead-ends and cul-de-sacs gathered here provide a kind of counter-factual, alternative history to King Crimson’s catalogue; a shadow album that traces those points where things came together or fell apart in the trying, where ideas either bloomed or withered.
Speaking after the release of Three Of A Perfect Pair in 1984, Bill Bruford commented upon the album that took the group a year not so much to make as it did to find. “It did take quite a while...It’s kind of the fourth album with this version of the band. You see, we recorded one LP and more or less dumped it. We couldn’t quite see the way it was working out. When we reconvened the problems we had just evaporated! Sometimes, time is the only thing you need. Just to get away. And then suddenly the project was on its feet again and we knew where it was going and what to do.”

This didn't really get much discussion here. Do any of you have this? What do you think? I'm a big fan of 80's Crim, so it seems like this should be up my alley, but I don't tend to get a lot of mileage out of outtake-type releases. Any gems?

Mister Triscuits
02-29-2016, 06:54 PM
This didn't really get much discussion here. Do any of you have this? What do you think? I'm a big fan of 80's Crim, so it seems like this should be up my alley, but I don't tend to get a lot of mileage out of outtake-type releases. Any gems?

It's not out yet--still on pre-order.

Obscured
02-29-2016, 09:01 PM
More Live release news

It’s a fabbo-to-the-max, triple whammy of a day for King Crimson fans. Not only is the first in-concert download by the current line-up now available via DGMLive, a mail-order only, 2-disc official collectors bootleg edition of the gig will be released on the 17th March.
If that’s not enough, then how about a full live album gathering together the complete King Crimson setlist compiled from numerous nights and selected performances. In response to overwhelming demand for video of the group’s shows, the multi-disc set will come with selected in-concert footage.
This major release will be made available to coincide with the start of King Crimson’s return to live performance later in September 2016.
If you don’t want or can’t wait until March or September, you can download King Crimson’s performance at Toronto’s Queen Elizabeth Theatre on November 20th, 2015 today. A superb example of the band in full-flight, it features some of the best-loved pieces in King Crimson’s catalogue as well as new material such as Radical Action To Unseat The Hold Of Monkey Mind and Meltdown. You can download it here right now.

http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=35&show=2011

This Official Collectors’ Bootleg captures King Crimson on a single night in the middle of the band’s Canadian tour in November 2015. With the exception of one small edit following an announcement before the band take the stage, the running time of this concert is exactly as it was heard in the hall by those fortunate enough to have been there. Even by the high standards set by King Crimson’s current line-up, this concert was agreed by all involved to have that extra special ingredient, making it the perfect choice when seeking an official release to counter the poorly recorded bootlegs that have begun to circulate.
Featuring the recorded debut of new material such as Meltdown & Radical Action, the three drummer percussion pieces Hell Hounds of Krim & Banshee Legs Bell Hassle & a variety of King Crimson classics – including material from In The Court Of The Crimson King performed & recorded live for the first time in decades, a return to the live set of Easy Money for the first time since 1974 & more recent powerhouse pieces such as Level Five & VROOOM – all material that the seven piece King Crimson has made very much its own in an absurdly short time of touring.
The first release by the current band was the 2014 mini-album, “Live at the Orpheum”. This autumn, they will be releasing their long-awaited and much anticipated first major album – a comprehensive live release, taking the best performances of each song from the extensive set list (which changes nightly) & also including footage of selected performances. It will be released to coincide with the band’s 2016 European tour, which begins in the UK with two concerts at the Waterside Theatre in Aylesbury on September 4th & 5th, the band’s only UK dates for 2016.
For those who cannot wait until the autumn, this Collector’s Edition makes the perfect teaser.
The first full concert release by the current line-up of King Crimson will be released via mail order on March 17th. You can pre-order here:

Inner Knot (USA customers)
http://shop.schizoidshop.com/featured-items-c12.aspx

Burning Shed (UK and Europe)
https://www.burningshed.com/store/kingcrimson/

Mel Collins: Saxes & flute, Robert Fripp: Guitar & keyboards, Gavin Harrison: Drums, Jakko Jakszyk: Guitar & voice, Tony Levin: Basses & stick, Pat Mastelotto: Drums, Bill Rieflin: Drums & keyboards
The tracklisting is as follows
Disc 1:
1 Threshold Soundscape
2 Larks’ Tongues In Aspic Part I
3 Pictures Of A City
4 VROOOM
5 Radical Action (To Unseat the
Hold of Monkey Mind)
6 Meltdown
7 Hell Hounds of Krim
8 The ConstruKction of Light
9 Red
10 Epitaph
Disc 2:
1 Banshee Legs Bell Hassle
2 Easy Money
3 Level Five
4 The Letters
5 Sailor's Tale
6 Starless
7 The Court of the Crimson King
8 21st Century Schizoid Man

6992

"Easy Money" is available as a FREE download now- http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=35&show=2011
Auto-pre-order. Really wanted to hear "E$" most, very happy camper here.

N_Singh
02-29-2016, 09:55 PM
I think that this group does the definitive rendition of the title track to Larks part one. People can clamor about the thunderous sound of three drummers, but the wonderfully orchestrated polyrhythmic percussion intro is sublime. The flute adds a very nice Pastoral counterbalance to the heaviness, and the Outro sounds beautiful

Sean
02-29-2016, 10:16 PM
The version of Easy Money is a free download. Sounds cool, though it's almost bizzare to hear it live all these years later.

http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=35&show=2011

MDC
03-07-2016, 11:42 AM
So...it looks like KC has a new drummer for the fall tour in Jeremy Stacy. Maybe Reiflin can decide to do the tour after all and we can just have four drummers. That wouldn't be overkill, right?

See here: http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=5474

Discuss.

oilersfan
03-07-2016, 11:52 AM
Rumor around the campfire is that Rieflin is fighting some type of serious illness, perhaps that his cancer has returned.

Phlakaton
03-07-2016, 12:23 PM
So...it looks like KC has a new drummer for the fall tour in Jeremy Stacy. Maybe Reiflin can decide to do the tour after all and we can just have four drummers. That wouldn't be overkill, right?

See here: http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=5474

Discuss.

I for one would love to see Mike Giles - alone - done.

Dave (in MA)
03-07-2016, 12:26 PM
Stacy has quite a resume.

Spiral
03-07-2016, 02:07 PM
Rumor around the campfire is that Rieflin is fighting some type of serious illness, perhaps that his cancer has returned.
Yikes. I didn't know he had it--really hope the reason isn't that serious, whatever the case may be.

bondegezou
03-08-2016, 05:51 AM
Stacy has quite a resume.

He does. Jeremy Stacey (I see DGM spelt his name wrong!) and his identical twin guitarist Paul are big prog fans. Although Jeremy is better known for his work with the likes of Guy Chambers, Sheryl Crow and Noel Gallagher, he and Paul worked on Syndestructible and planned further work with Chris Squire and Gerard Johnson after they all got fed up with Steve Nardelli. Jeremy subsequently played on Chris Squire's Swiss Choir and the Squackett album. I'm sure he'll be thrilled at the job.

(Although I still don't hear why Crimson needs three drummers!)

Henry

chalkpie
03-08-2016, 06:09 AM
(Although I still don't hear why Crimson needs three drummers!)

Henry

I only saw the show once in NYC, not sure if "need" is an adjective I would use, but I'm glad they did it and enjoyed it very much so. For three percussionists to have your shit together to create the space and interaction on music of this difficulty is beyond commendable. Why does Varese need 13 percussionists for "Ameriques"? Probably could've gotten away with 11, but it sure is fun to hear all that racket :) I'm a fan of this idea.

bondegezou
03-08-2016, 08:38 AM
I only saw the show once in NYC, not sure if "need" is an adjective I would use, but I'm glad they did it and enjoyed it very much so. For three percussionists to have your shit together to create the space and interaction on music of this difficulty is beyond commendable. Why does Varese need 13 percussionists for "Ameriques"? Probably could've gotten away with 11, but it sure is fun to hear all that racket :) I'm a fan of this idea.

Well, you know, if "The Hell Hounds of Krim" compared to "Amériques", I'd be more sympathetic to that argument, but it doesn't.

I've only heard "Easy Money" on the new live release so far, and the percussion detail on the piece is lovely, yet the overall performance feels stilted, I'm guessing because the togetherness of the shit required robs the piece of a certain dynamism.

Henry

Phlakaton
03-08-2016, 08:59 AM
Well, you know, if "The Hell Hounds of Krim" compared to "Amériques", I'd be more sympathetic to that argument, but it doesn't.

I've only heard "Easy Money" on the new live release so far, and the percussion detail on the piece is lovely, yet the overall performance feels stilted, I'm guessing because the togetherness of the shit required robs the piece of a certain dynamism.

Henry

Henry

I think you nailed it for me. The fact that they need to maneuver around a larger group like they do - certainly kills something - at least for me. Not that its totally undesirable - its just a touch reigned in on some weird level.

jamesmanzi
03-08-2016, 12:02 PM
(Although I still don't hear why Crimson needs three drummers!)


3 years into the project and I still don't understand this question. They need three drummers because they feel like having three drummers, and it's hard to have three drummers with less than three or more than three. Three drummers is the perfect amount of drummers for a band that wishes to have three drummers.

What deeper answer are people looking for?

Phlakaton
03-08-2016, 12:05 PM
3 years into the project and I still don't understand this question. They need three drummers because they feel like having three drummers, and it's hard to have three drummers with less than three or more than three. Three drummers is the perfect amount of drummers for a band that wishes to have three drummers.

What deeper answer are people looking for?

my holy hand grenade has no pin! Count to 3!

calyx
03-08-2016, 12:06 PM
They need three drummers because they feel like having three drummers, and it's hard to have three drummers with less than three or more than three. Three drummers is the perfect amount of drummers for a band that wishes to have three drummers.

You could use a variation of the above as an answer to just about any possible question. Very useful to have. Thanks.

Sean
03-08-2016, 12:13 PM
Three of a perfect pair suggest that "two's company, three's a crowd".

Spiral
03-08-2016, 01:30 PM
3 years into the project and I still don't understand this question. ... Three drummers is the perfect amount of drummers for a band that wishes to have three drummers.

What deeper answer are people looking for?
Exactly. They didn't need to have both a drummer and percussionist in late '72, but the combo worked wonders. Ditto two guitarists in '81 or two drummers in '94/'08. They had an interesting idea and chose the right lineup to realize it.

I never heard of this guy Stacy either, but he's got to be doing something right to be chosen by this group. I'll trust they all know what they're doing.

Baribrotzer
03-08-2016, 01:34 PM
I wonder who'll handle keyboards. Bill did formerly. The parts aren't hard - mostly sampled-Mellotron lines or chords - but it would help to have someone who did know how to play keys.

MDC
03-08-2016, 01:55 PM
I wonder who'll handle keyboards. Bill did formerly. The parts aren't hard - mostly sampled-Mellotron lines or chords - but it would help to have someone who did know how to play keys.

Per Sid Smith in the DGM Guestbook, "Jeremy is also a keyboard player as well." I guess this means he'll cover for Bill in that capacity too. :)

Steve Nardelli
03-08-2016, 02:16 PM
Per Sid Smith in the DGM Guestbook, "Jeremy is also a keyboard player as well." I guess this means he'll cover for Bill in that capacity too. :)

Jeremy and his twin brother Paul are good friends with Robert Fripp from their younger days in the West country. Both brothers are brilliant multi-instrument musicians, although Jeremy is predominantly a drummer and Paul a guitarist, and both played with The Syn on Syndestructible.

unclemeat
03-08-2016, 03:23 PM
From David Singleton's diary :
In addition to the 2015 tour releases, "there will, of course be a boxed set to go under the Christmas Tree (unreleased gems from the 1980s being unearthed even as I write) (&) a KC book".

NogbadTheBad
03-08-2016, 03:41 PM
If the KC book is an updated version of Sid's I'll be very very happy.

tallliman
03-08-2016, 04:20 PM
An 80's box sounds intriguing. It'll depend what's on it though as to whether I get it as I have at least some of the 80's releases

bondegezou
03-08-2016, 05:34 PM
3 years into the project and I still don't understand this question. They need three drummers because they feel like having three drummers, and it's hard to have three drummers with less than three or more than three. Three drummers is the perfect amount of drummers for a band that wishes to have three drummers.

What deeper answer are people looking for?

Bands make decisions about their music. The proof of the pudding, so to speak, is in the end result, the music. Fripp decided to eschew chords on Discipline and I, as I think most here, love the end result and can hear how that decision worked musically. Yes decided to do a double album of side-long pieces with Tales from Topographic Oceans: some people love how that worked and the finished release, while others don't and think it was a mistake (including at least one person who played on the album). Again, one can connect the decision to the end result.

So, of course, yes, the answer to why they need three drummers, at one level, is because they (or presumably Fripp) feel they want three drummers, but equally we, as listeners, in asking that question are saying that we don't hear how that decision works. I have several albums showcasing multi-percussionist music in my collection, and I can hear on pieces like "Ameriques" (to use an example given earlier) how the composer has taken particular decisions and achieved a particular effect. I don't, as yet, hear how Crimson's decision to have three drummers positively adds to their music.

Does that answer your question as to the nature of the deeper question?

Henry

jamesmanzi
03-08-2016, 06:22 PM
Does that answer your question as to the nature of the deeper question?

Henry

I appreciate the time you took to elucidate, and it is clear - but please understand that I do understand what you mean when you ask "why three drummers." If I were less flippant about it, I might've been more clear - when I say "I don't understand the question," I'm saying "I don't understand the point of asking the question." The musicians in question want to play together. That's it. What more needs to be explained?

Also, to be clear, you state your interest in an inquisitive way, very earnestly seeking an understanding of the musical motive behind the decision - that is not true of most of the comments seen here in the last three years. It's usually phrased in a way that suggests that the listener has been somehow inconvenienced by the presence of three drummers. There's this weird, entitled tone you hear in the way people discuss music sometimes, as if they've been betrayed by a musician who dared to create music they don't like, or in a way they weren't consulted about beforehand.

So yeah, "I don't see the need for three drummers" pisses me off a little, because it's completely dismissive of the musicians involved. It sounds an awful lot like "I don't see the need for musicians who want to play together to play together, because they should only play together if it has some end benefit for me, perceptible in the music they create."

Yes, someone will now come along and tell me "I am inconvenienced by the presence of three drummers because of [the criticisms upthread about the cold feel of the music or whatever]." To which I say "too effing bad." They're making the music they want to make. You don't like it, that's not a problem with the band. It's entirely on you. You bring your expectations to any music you listen to, to any art you perceive. It's not the artist's failing if they haven't created something that matches what you decided they should create.

Is this all black and white, zeroes and ones? No, of course not. There is certainly objectively awful music, and objectively poor musicians. I don't think the current KC lineup is objectively poor though, and I hope most here would agree.

They are making the music they want to make. If you've heard other bands use multiple percussionists in more creative ways, that's great. I'll scroll back thru the thread and make note of the music you've recommended (that's why I hang out here in the end), but that does not make it a failing of KC for using the musicians in a different way. If the three drummers thought it would be fun to play lock step beat for beat in sync for the whole show, there would still be no need to question "the point" of three drummers. The "point" is that's what they are choosing to do. We are all very, very welcome to determine if we like what they're doing, but the point is not a mystery. As I said upthread, they have three drummers because they want to.

Thanks for listening as I felt my way thru that - I wasn't entirely sure of what bothered me about that question before I started typing. :)

notallwhowander
03-08-2016, 07:20 PM
From what I read, three drummers were wanted for the live band. Ade was excluded, so there was no frontman. The triple drum line was assembled and put in front to make the whole ensemble more interesting to look at while performing.

The decision wasn't composition based, but performance based.

I can tell you, it's a thing to see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bondegezou
03-09-2016, 06:22 AM
I appreciate the time you took to elucidate, and it is clear - but please understand that I do understand what you mean when you ask "why three drummers." If I were less flippant about it, I might've been more clear - when I say "I don't understand the question," I'm saying "I don't understand the point of asking the question." The musicians in question want to play together. That's it. What more needs to be explained?

Also, to be clear, you state your interest in an inquisitive way, very earnestly seeking an understanding of the musical motive behind the decision - that is not true of most of the comments seen here in the last three years. It's usually phrased in a way that suggests that the listener has been somehow inconvenienced by the presence of three drummers. There's this weird, entitled tone you hear in the way people discuss music sometimes, as if they've been betrayed by a musician who dared to create music they don't like, or in a way they weren't consulted about beforehand.

So yeah, "I don't see the need for three drummers" pisses me off a little, because it's completely dismissive of the musicians involved. It sounds an awful lot like "I don't see the need for musicians who want to play together to play together, because they should only play together if it has some end benefit for me, perceptible in the music they create."

Yes, someone will now come along and tell me "I am inconvenienced by the presence of three drummers because of [the criticisms upthread about the cold feel of the music or whatever]." To which I say "too effing bad." They're making the music they want to make. You don't like it, that's not a problem with the band. It's entirely on you. You bring your expectations to any music you listen to, to any art you perceive. It's not the artist's failing if they haven't created something that matches what you decided they should create.

Is this all black and white, zeroes and ones? No, of course not. There is certainly objectively awful music, and objectively poor musicians. I don't think the current KC lineup is objectively poor though, and I hope most here would agree.

They are making the music they want to make. If you've heard other bands use multiple percussionists in more creative ways, that's great. I'll scroll back thru the thread and make note of the music you've recommended (that's why I hang out here in the end), but that does not make it a failing of KC for using the musicians in a different way. If the three drummers thought it would be fun to play lock step beat for beat in sync for the whole show, there would still be no need to question "the point" of three drummers. The "point" is that's what they are choosing to do. We are all very, very welcome to determine if we like what they're doing, but the point is not a mystery. As I said upthread, they have three drummers because they want to.

Thanks for listening as I felt my way thru that - I wasn't entirely sure of what bothered me about that question before I started typing. :)

Thank you for your considered response. I am full of respect for anyone who makes an album or puts on a tour. Let's take, as a fairly random example, Spock's Beard's Snow: this album moves me little, but clearly Neal Morse and the others put their time and effort, and their creativity, into making what they wanted to make. I wouldn't want to dismiss that. But...

I'm not interested in a music forum where we sit around being respectful of the musicians and never question their choices. I want to discuss the music and a central part of my response to the music is hedonic: whether I like it or not. I want to talk about the music and do so in terms of its "end benefit for me", i.e. me enjoying it or not (while doing so cognisant that other people have different likes and reactions to the same music). And I don't think that's about me "bring expectations to any music [I] listen to" or the "artist's failing if they haven't created something that matches what you decided they should create." I can be open-minded about the music the artist(s) make, but still disappointed in the result.

The current King Crimson -- or rather Fripp presumably -- made various choices: dropping Ade for Jakko, having three drummers, choosing a nostalgia-heavy set. Those choices affect the music, and I would like to use a forum like ours to discuss my reaction to that music and those underlying choices, with other people who may have similar or different reactions and perspectives to the music and choices. No, it's not the band's problem if I'm not as happy as I could be with their output, but I take ProgressiveEars.com to be a space for us fans, not a service for the band.

In that context, my question of why three drummers -- and, I hazard, the comments made by others about the three drummers, even if worded in a less earnest manner -- comes down to the three drummer configuration not working for us. That is, it does not seem to produce better music (in a subjective sense). It invites others to discuss how the three drummer configuration does work for them, as with notallwhowander's comments above (liking the visual spectacle).

Likewise, the answer "that's what they are choosing to do" or "because they want to" seems to me rather unambitious. That answer fits most volitional behaviours, but don't we frequently, in all sorts of situations, seek a deeper answer? Why has Hillary Clinton stressed her support for the #BlackLivesMatter movement? Because that's what she chooses to do. Yes, but isn't there more to say here about how she's positioning herself in the primary campaign opposed to Sanders, or about her personal priorities and [I]Weltanschauung? Why did I bring shepherd's pie into work today? Because that's what I chose to do. Yes, but isn't there more to say here about how I am trying to save money on lunch (in order to be able to afford the next mega-deluxe King Crimson box set) or about why I like shepherd's pie (I think it's something to do with how the tomato and beef in the mince complement each other's umami taste, while texturally contrasting with the mashed potato)? King Crimson don't have to tell me if they don't want to, but I think it's entirely sensible for someone listening to the music to wonder about the choices made and seek a deeper explanation for them. Again, notallwhowander has offered a possible explanation in those terms (in order to create a visual spectacle, with Fripp not wanting to be a traditional frontman).

Henry

N_Singh
03-09-2016, 06:33 AM
I can definitely hear the very nuanced, ensemble-like approach of the drummers.

The problem is, nuance, subtlety and precision are lost, vastly under appreciated qualities in an era where power and intensity are largely measured by "loudness" and "volume ".

But then again, I love music that becomes even more intense the quieter one plays. Tension and release are part of a lost art when expectations are that everyone is simply bashing away with brute force .

That is why most metal music sucks: if you turn off the amps, the emperor has no clothes and they are just playing brainless dyads.

bondegezou
03-09-2016, 06:57 AM
From what I read, three drummers were wanted for the live band. Ade was excluded, so there was no frontman. The triple drum line was assembled and put in front to make the whole ensemble more interesting to look at while performing.

The decision wasn't composition based, but performance based.

I can tell you, it's a thing to see.

That's interesting, thanks. I do value visual spectacle in performance; and Edward Macan cites the ritual nature of live performance as a key characteristic of the progressive rock genre. We've already discussed a bit in this thread the current Crimson's focus on live performance over new studio work. But I'm kinda not moved by a bit of synchronised drumming -- I want Crimson, not the Blue Man Group!

The thing is -- and I haven't seen them live and await my new live CD and hope to hear N_Singh's nuance -- but I've seen multi-percussionist stuff done and it seemed much better. I remember seeing Pete Lockett's Network of Sparks featuring Bill Bruford live. Only percussionists, between 1 and about 8 on stage. Plenty of spectacle, and great music throughout, great music that used and needed the all-percussionist line-up. Whereas Crimson seem to be doing relatively straight versions of music originally done with usually one or sometimes two percussionists.

Henry

NogbadTheBad
03-09-2016, 07:04 AM
I pretty much agree with both sides of this discussion :). The three drummers in a live setting works very well, it is certainly a significant part of the show. I doubt you'll hear in live recordings though I will download the full concert. The Orpheum disc is nice but nonessential IMHO. What it lacked was the fire of the early 70's live material. My personal favorite is a drummer & percussionist setup as per LTiA. It seemed the perfect combination for KC.

Kcrimso
03-09-2016, 07:26 AM
In live setting King Crimson's three drummers worked perfectly on most songs but there were some songs that I felt that it got little cluttered and any one of them alone would have worked probably better. Anyway watching those dudes do their magic was great entertainment and that part of course does not translate at all to recordings.

The Crimson King
03-09-2016, 07:43 AM
I saw the latest version of King Crimson in Philadelphia in 2014. I must say the 3-drummer set-up did not work for me. Having 3 drummers in the "front line" just overwhelmed and crushed the music, in my opinion. I was forced to focus my eyes and ears on the obnoxious drums assault. I saw nothing positive about it.

In addition, since having 3 drummers requires a lot of coordination between the 3, it makes the music too controlled and clinical. There is no freedom or swing to it. I think you can hear on the latest recording how the music sounds kind of sterile and clinical. Very good, but some vitality is missing. The lack of life in the music was also reflected in the fact that the musicians in the band all had to wear suits and stand in place like statues.

I've loved every version of King Crimson, but I think Fripp really misfired here. Not sure what he was going for.

When I left the Philadelphia concert I was chatting with another long-term fan, who expressed his disappointment and dislike for the 3-drummer set-up simply by saying "Bill Bruford could have done everything himself that the other 3 drummers did." In this case more is less.

Fripp stated that this is the first version of the band where he has not felt any resentment from other members, or something to that effect. So he got to arrange everything exactly as he wanted it (suits, statues, front-line triple drum assault to hide behind). This is not good. He needs some creative tension in the band. Guys like Bill Bruford, Adrian Belew, Ian McDonald, and others probably annoyed and upset him at times, but the creative tension produced great music. Now it's too sterile.

All hail the King, but this is not how I want to see them go out.

Kcrimso
03-09-2016, 07:51 AM
I liked the suits! :D

notallwhowander
03-09-2016, 08:29 AM
There was a lot of fire and passion at the show I saw! Of course the live experience and the recorded experience are different things, different experiences, fundamentally,

I wonder how much the "prison of expectation" Fripp wrote about in the '00s comes into play with these critiques?

Honestly I never expected to see Crimson perform again. I was happy to see the beast up and running. They put together a great show, with a great overview of material. Fripp wanted a touring band that would encompass the broadest possible swath of repertoire. You can scream "nostalgia" all you want, but I think nostalgia would have meant trying to bring more alumnus back on stage. They did feature two songs off of Scarcity..., and the band featured the Scarcity... collaborators, so they were as current as they could be.

I think it is closer to the mark to say Fripp saw the potential of a broader touring repertoire with the Scarcity... collaborators as the band's core, and moved forward from there.

N_Singh
03-09-2016, 08:39 AM
"The lack of life in the music was also reflected in the fact that the musicians in the band all had to wear suits and stand in place like statues."

Really? This is an actual critique ? Wow.

Charlie Parker always stood motionless when he played and usually in a suit, and you won't find anyone with more fire and passion in the music .

Spiral
03-09-2016, 08:40 AM
From what I read, three drummers were wanted for the live band. Ade was excluded, so there was no frontman.
That seems backwards. The idea was that there would be no frontman, therefore Ade wasn't the right guy to include.


The triple drum line was assembled and put in front to make the whole ensemble more interesting to look at while performing.

The decision wasn't composition based, but performance based.
According to RF's diary, it all started with one of his 'points of seeing.' He just had this sudden picture--a reversal of the usual setup with drums as frontline and other instruments in back--and everything else followed from that. He seems to suggest, and I see no reason not to believe it, that it's all about serving that musical idea. The stage setup is meant only to illustrate that. It's hardly about making an interesting spectacle, considering everybody stays still in place and there's exactly one change in lighting through the whole show.

Robert has never been a traditional frontman, as someone else pointed out, but this setup has nothing to do with him staying away from the spotlight (which he's always done). Actually in this band's setup, he's better lit and easier to see than ever.


The problem is, nuance, subtlety and precision are lost, vastly under appreciated qualities in an era where power and intensity are largely measured by "loudness" and "volume ".

But then again, I love music that becomes even more intense the quieter one plays. Tension and release are part of a lost art when expectations are that everyone is simply bashing away with brute force .

That is why most metal music sucks: if you turn off the amps, the emperor has no clothes and they are just playing brainless dyads.
However, this Crimson (like most lineups) isn't just about power by any means. They're all about dynamics and unafraid to go from loud to soft and anywhere in between. (To be fair, there are more than a few metal bands out there who also understand the same thing and are far from brainless.)


"Bill Bruford could have done everything himself that the other 3 drummers did."
Bill (if he wasn't retired) would have handled the parts and indeed done it exceptionally--but so what? He wouldn't have done everything this line does, and he would have done it his own different way. Pat alone would have done the same, or Bill or Gavin alone, but none of them would have produced the overall result they get as a whole.

The results can sound a little reined in, as some folks have pointed out. I think that's really a normal inevitable consequence of having seven members. At the same time, that doesn't mean there's no room for spontaneity or imprecision. The Crims have consistently cited the wobbly parts as times where magic happens. Arguably this lineup means a chance to be a different kind of adventurous--things do get shaky with music this complex, and in a way it's more difficult for a bigger band to handle those moments and stay on the rails.


If the KC book is an updated version of Sid's I'll be very very happy.
Seconded. There's been precious little news on that front for quite some time now.

The Crimson King
03-09-2016, 12:09 PM
"The lack of life in the music was also reflected in the fact that the musicians in the band all had to wear suits and stand in place like statues."

Really? This is an actual critique ? Wow.

Charlie Parker always stood motionless when he played and usually in a suit, and you won't find anyone with more fire and passion in the music .

Yes, it's an actual critique. With Adrian Belew there was a lot of energy being displayed in the performances. Jakko also was a lot more animated and energetic when he was fronting the 21st Century Schizoid Band. Tony Levin, too. I didn't like seeing everyone standing in their little spots acting emotionless.

But that's not the main critique, of course. Mainly I didn't like the triple-drum front-line assault. But whatever. Any Crimson is still better than no Crimson.

bondegezou
03-09-2016, 12:25 PM
I think it is closer to the mark to say Fripp saw the potential of a broader touring repertoire with the Scarcity... collaborators as the band's core, and moved forward from there.

If the set list was mostly material from A Scarcity of Miracles with a few oldies, that would be more plausible. But it isn't: it was a little bit of Scarcity material that latterly got dropped.

Henry

bondegezou
03-09-2016, 12:29 PM
However, this Crimson (like most lineups) isn't just about power by any means. They're all about dynamics and unafraid to go from loud to soft and anywhere in between. (To be fair, there are more than a few metal bands out there who also understand the same thing and are far from brainless.)

To return to Ed Macan again, that's pretty much one of his defining features for the genre. Prog generally is all about dynamics and contrasts. I expect this as a baseline from most prog bands.

Henry

jkelman
03-09-2016, 06:42 PM
...the music was also reflected in the fact that the musicians in the band all had to wear suits and stand in place like statues.

While more physically animated players can bring something to a show (compare Dave Kilminster to Guthrie Govan in Steven Wilson's band; Kilminster is clearly more of a showman; Govan is largely inanimate) I don't think it's a prerequisite to making one show better or worse than another. Back to Wilson, I think both guitarists bring something to the group, something very different. Do I prefer Kilminster because he's animated? No. Do I think Govan would be better if he were? No. I like them both, and each for very different reasons (which you will be able to read in my review of Montreal, hopefully coming at All About Jazz this weekend if I can get myself moving!)....

Criticizing a group because they choose to wear suits and because they are largely inanimate only means that it's the music that has to engage. I've seen four nights of the current Crimson - two in 2014, two last fall. While you clearly were not engaged, I absolutely was enthralled by the group...especially last year because, with a year under their belt, they now have some more original material to add to the back catalog. But that they wear suits and/or that they are largely inanimate doesn't make me like them or dislike them any more than the overall lack of any visuals - lighting that, barring one very dramatic moment, is completely static...for a reason. Because this is a group that wants to be assessed on its musical merits and nothing else. Others, like Steven Wilson, want to provide a broader experience that includes a very strong visual element....and I love his shows for it (though that doesn't take anything away from how powerful a group it is musically).

So, for me (and the "for me" is absolutely mean to be emphasized), your argument holds absolutely no merit. Many, many jazz artists wore (and, for some, continue to wear) suits and are absolutely not animated. I don't believe, for a second, that it matters when it comes to how terrific they are in performance. For the jazz guys, many of them considered sharp suits to be a reflection of style.

So, different strokes for different folks, and if these things make for a dull evening for you, that's cool.

...however....


..."Bill Bruford could have done everything himself that the other 3 drummers did."

Clearly not a remark made by a drummer, because (and I'm not one either, but have spent most of my life playing with one who taught me a lot about the instrument and its value) that's simply untrue. He may well be able to do things that you like better than the triple drum lineup, but to suggest he could actually perform these often complex arrangements all on his lonesome? Sorry, but absolutely untrue.


Fripp stated that this is the first version of the band where he has not felt any resentment from other members, or something to that effect. So he got to arrange everything exactly as he wanted it (suits, statues, front-line triple drum assault to hide behind).

Just wondering: do you actually know, for a fact, that suits and statues came from Fripp? Jakko has never been, in past things I've seen him with, any more particularly animated than he was with Crimson. Levin can be, but, again, not always (watch him play on Paul Simon's One Trick Pony). Mel has never been a particularly animated player either. Perhaps Fripp dictated the suits...but the unanimated behaviour? Even if it was him - and I've not seen anything to suggest it was - OI think it's important to consider, as I've said, that this is a group where the music is front and centre, not visuals of any kind. Now, you may not like it, you may not think it's good. But speaking for myself I was blown away by all four shows...and, frankly, what the back line lacked in animation (I don't give a shit about the suits) was more than made up for by paying attention to the three-drummer frontline. There was more than enough to keep me occupied watching these three guys manage to execute tightly arranged orchestrations while, at the same time, being loose enough to allow for flexibility in interpretation at the same time. YMMV, but for me, all four nights were, in a word, exhilarating.



He needs some creative tension in the band. Guys like Bill Bruford, Adrian Belew, Ian McDonald, and others probably annoyed and upset him at times, but the creative tension produced great music. Now it's too sterile.
Creative tension and resentment are two different things. When I last saw Pat Metheny with Unity Group (second time that year) and I had a chance to chat with him after the show, one of the most telling remarks he made (and I'm paraphrasing a bit but the intent is absolutely what was said): "It's great to play with a group of really mature players who come to the show every night without any drama, and with only one purpose: to play the best they can." Knowing what I know about Pat Metheny Group (and I'm sorry but I don't feel comfortable naming names), it was clear he was referring to that band...which was, at least IMO, uniformly wonderful, but had, over the years, some people in the group that probably made spending months on the road with them a challenge - and the kind of challenge you don't need when putting on a show like PMG did, where just getting everything to work (technology being a big one, and I would say the same could be said about Crimson)
properly every night was tough enough, without any melodrama and/or personal bullshit.

So if Fripp decided, for once, that he didn't want to deal with any drama...and, furthermore, wanted to arrange the touring so that it's not as tiring and difficult as it usually is (always a day off for travel between cities, and trying to play two, even three nights in the same city/venue so as to make things less gruelling for everyone, including the crew)..then I say more power to him. That he has demonstrated it is possible to do it might well be - at least for some artists capable of drawing the same kinds of crowds as he can, for the same kind of ticket prices - something of a p
precedent-setter. Over the decades, touring has become increasingly gruelling, and it's great to see someone try to do it in, well, a more civilized way. Because I know too many musicians who live in bubbles on tour, only know what city they're in because it says so in the list of tour dates, and really spend far more time getting to/from gigs and setting up/tearing down than they ever do playing. They do it but I know many of them would love to be able to sit in the same venue for a couple nights, so that their days can be spent doing something other than travel, sound check, gig, rinse, repeat.


All hail the King, but this is not how I want to see them go out.
And that's fair enough, for you. But there are plenty of folks who feel otherwise, and having heard the new Live in Toronto release, everything I loved about their performances in San Francisco and Montreal have been captured. Those shows were exhilarating, and so is this (for now) downloadable show. I look forward to video - not because I expect anything different than what I saw, but because it'll give me a chance to see what I missed, which was quite a lot, to be honest. With seven folks up onstage, they may not be very animated, but they're doing a lot of pretty stellar playing that I'll finally be able to see in its entirety, as I was constantly shifting my attention around ... and, yes, the three-drummer frontline absolutely commanded a lot of my attention, especially when Jakko wasn't singing, if only because Gavin Harrison's arrangements for the drummers was, for me at least, very commanding.

But I recognize, clearly based on PE, that not everyone felt the same way. But it does appear that, at least, a good percentage of folks do. Certainly, based on the reception at the four shows I saw, that seemed to be the case overall.

But wouldn't life be boring if we all felt the same about everything... :O

Cheers!
John

The Crimson King
03-09-2016, 07:57 PM
If the set list was mostly material from A Scarcity of Miracles with a few oldies, that would be more plausible. But it isn't: it was a little bit of Scarcity material that latterly got dropped.

Henry

Edit: Never mind..

The Crimson King
03-09-2016, 08:28 PM
Criticizing a group because they choose to wear suits and because they are largely inanimate only means that it's the music that has to engage. I've seen four nights of the current Crimson - two in 2014, two last fall. While you clearly were not engaged, I absolutely was enthralled by the group...especially last year because, with a year under their belt, they now have some more original material to add to the back catalog. But that they wear suits and/or that they are largely inanimate doesn't make me like them or dislike them any more than the overall lack of any visuals - lighting that, barring one very dramatic moment, is completely static...for a reason. Because this is a group that wants to be assessed on its musical merits and nothing else. Others, like Steven Wilson, want to provide a broader experience that includes a very strong visual element....and I love his shows for it (though that doesn't take anything away from how powerful a group it is musically).

When I went to see Crimson in 2014, I mainly wanted to feel the amazement and joy of hearing Fripp, Mel Collins, and Tony Levin playing. I wanted to engage with the music. However I really disliked the whole presentation of the band, which effected my enjoyment of the music. I felt like Fripp was hiding from the audience by putting his battery of drums up front. Visually and sonically it covered the people I wanted to see play and the music I wanted to hear. It was distracting and annoying to me, and not just to me.

Maybe it's petty to criticize the suits and motionlessness, but to me it increased the distance between Fripp & company and the audience. The taped "no fun allowed" lecture at the beginning of the show also didn't help. I felt distanced and disengaged from the band while being under sonic assault from the drums battery. It may be Crimson, but it's still rock and roll. At least it should be.

The following month I saw Adrian Belew's Power Trio in a small venue. The difference was incredible. Adrian and his band were bursting with energy, smiling, engaging the audience. They just created an atmosphere of total joy. Plus Adrian hung out after the show to talk to anyone who approached him. He's an amazing guy. Fripp and the new Crimson were staid and dour by comparison.


<"Bill Bruford could have done everything himself that the other 3 drummers did."> Clearly not a remark made by a drummer, because (and I'm not one either, but have spent most of my life playing with one who taught me a lot about the instrument and its value) that's simply untrue. He may well be able to do things that you like better than the triple drum lineup, but to suggest he could actually perform these often complex arrangements all on his lonesome? Sorry, but absolutely untrue.

Yes, obviously that statement was not literally true. It just reflected the frustrated fan's attitude toward the triple drum set-up, which I shared. He was just saying less is more, if you have the right guy.



wondering: do you actually know, for a fact, that suits and statues came from Fripp? Jakko has never been, in past things I've seen him with, any more particularly animated than he was with Crimson. Levin can be, but, again, not always (watch him play on Paul Simon's One Trick Pony). Mel has never been a particularly animated player either. Perhaps Fripp dictated the suits...but the unanimated behaviour? Even if it was him - and I've not seen anything to suggest it was - OI think it's important to consider, as I've said, that this is a group where the music is front and centre, not visuals of any kind. Now, you may not like it, you may not think it's good. But speaking for myself I was blown away by all four shows...and, frankly, what the back line lacked in animation (I don't give a shit about the suits) was more than made up for by paying attention to the three-drummer frontline. There was more than enough to keep me occupied watching these three guys manage to execute tightly arranged orchestrations while, at the same time, being loose enough to allow for flexibility in interpretation at the same time. YMMV, but for me, all four nights were, in a word, exhilarating.

No, I don't know for a fact that the suits and statues came from Fripp. It's just my assumption. Like I said, Jakko was much more naturally animated and engaging when playing in the 21st Century Schizoid Band. It makes sense to assume that he was acting differently with Crimson because Fripp wanted it that way. I do wish I had seen the band more than once. Maybe I would have "got it" the 2nd or 3rd time. I'll say this about the 3 drummers, though - I did enjoy watching Pat M play. He seemed to be really into it and having a lot of fun. He actually seemed to be the only guy having fun. I loved Pat when he was the sole KC drummer and when he was teamed with Billy B.

Speaking of Pat, I saw him last year playing with Julie Slick's band. They were amazing. Such incredible musicians and music (very Crimson and Belew influenced), and there were probably less than 20 people in the audience to see it. :(


tension and resentment are two different things. When I last saw Pat Metheny with Unity Group (second time that year) and I had a chance to chat with him after the show, one of the most telling remarks he made (and I'm paraphrasing a bit but the intent is absolutely what was said): "It's great to play with a group of really mature players who come to the show every night without any drama, and with only one purpose: to play the best they can." Knowing what I know about Pat Metheny Group (and I'm sorry but I don't feel comfortable naming names), it was clear he was referring to that band...which was, at least IMO, uniformly wonderful, but had, over the years, some people in the group that probably made spending months on the road with them a challenge - and the kind of challenge you don't need when putting on a show like PMG did, where just getting everything to work (technology being a big one, and I would say the same could be said about Crimson)
properly every night was tough enough, without any melodrama and/or personal bullshit.

So if Fripp decided, for once, that he didn't want to deal with any drama...and, furthermore, wanted to arrange the touring so that it's not as tiring and difficult as it usually is (always a day off for travel between cities, and trying to play two, even three nights in the same city/venue so as to make things less gruelling for everyone, including the crew)..then I say more power to him. That he has demonstrated it is possible to do it might well be - at least for some artists capable of drawing the same kinds of crowds as he can, for the same kind of ticket prices - something of a p
precedent-setter. Over the decades, touring has become increasingly gruelling, and it's great to see someone try to do it in, well, a more civilized way. Because I know too many musicians who live in bubbles on tour, only know what city they're in because it says so in the list of tour dates, and really spend far more time getting to/from gigs and setting up/tearing down than they ever do playing. They do it but I know many of them would love to be able to sit in the same venue for a couple nights, so that their days can be spent doing something other than travel, sound check, gig, rinse, repeat.

I understand, but I don't think the music benefits when Fripp decides everything. Let's face it, Fripp is a God and a genius, but he's also a weirdo. The music was better when Greg Lake, Ian McDonald, Bill Bruford, and Adrian Belew had big voices in it. I got the feeling that this Crimson was 100% how Fripp wanted it to be. I don't think that's a good thing. (Yes, I am a huge Adrian fan.)


that's fair enough, for you. But there are plenty of folks who feel otherwise, and having heard the new Live in Toronto release, everything I loved about their performances in San Francisco and Montreal have been captured. Those shows were exhilarating, and so is this (for now) downloadable show. I look forward to video - not because I expect anything different than what I saw, but because it'll give me a chance to see what I missed, which was quite a lot, to be honest. With seven folks up onstage, they may not be very animated, but they're doing a lot of pretty stellar playing that I'll finally be able to see in its entirety, as I was constantly shifting my attention around ... and, yes, the three-drummer frontline absolutely commanded a lot of my attention, especially when Jakko wasn't singing, if only because Gavin Harrison's arrangements for the drummers was, for me at least, very commanding.

But I recognize, clearly based on PE, that not everyone felt the same way. But it does appear that, at least, a good percentage of folks do. Certainly, based on the reception at the four shows I saw, that seemed to be the case overall.

But wouldn't life be boring if we all felt the same about everything... :O

Cheers!
John

I bought the Toronto release. It's good, but it felt a bit sterile to me. I much prefer the live versions of those songs performed by the 70s versions of the band. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though. I look forward to the DVD. Maybe when I watch that, I'll see things differently.

Troopers For Sound
03-10-2016, 07:56 AM
Orpheum just sat on the shelf for me and led me to be very dubious of the 3 drummer line up. Toronto on the other hand has had four full plays since it came out...whatever has changed since the first release I'm not too sure of, but I find most of the triple drumming to be thrilling and ingenious at times. I really love the stretch of music from Monkey Mind through to Red. Epitaph and Court are the only tracks that don't entirely work for me...nice as they are to hear from a nostalgia perspective. Although even there the drummers orchestrate parts in an interesting way.

But I am a drummer first and foremost, so maybe there's a big "muso" element to enjoying this approach to KC...

Matt.

Spiral
03-10-2016, 08:27 AM
If the set list was mostly material from A Scarcity of Miracles with a few oldies, that would be more plausible. But it isn't: it was a little bit of Scarcity material that latterly got dropped.
Well, the comment did say "Scarcity... collaborators." He was saying more that RF originally heard some specific potential for that group of guys, whether they would eventually end up focusing on that album's material or (thankfully) not.

Nijinsky Hind
03-10-2016, 08:34 AM
Scarcity seems somewhat of a King Crimson anomaly to me. I have played it probably only 3 or 4 times... Nothing clicked. Not saying its a bad album, but there was nothing for me personally to 'grab on to' with it. Maybe time to try it again.

Frumious B
03-10-2016, 09:36 AM
I've yet to hear how this version of Crimson is moving the ball forward in any meaningful sense compared to previous iterations of the band. Really it's just a Crimson version of what other nostalgia based, but short on classic members dinosaur bands from The Beach Boys to Yes to Boston etc. do, but Fripp gets a pass because, ya know, he's Fripp. Fripp is cool and everything he does must, by extension, also be cool. It sure makes me miss the f*ck out of Bowie that much more.

calyx
03-10-2016, 10:23 AM
I've yet to hear how this version of Crimson is moving the ball forward in any meaningful sense compared to previous iterations of the band. Really it's just a Crimson version of what other nostalgia based, but short on classic members dinosaur bands from The Beach Boys to Yes to Boston etc. do, but Fripp gets a pass because, ya know, he's Fripp. Fripp is cool and everything he does must, by extension, also be cool. It sure makes me miss the f*ck out of Bowie that much more.

I would certainly agree that Bowie came up with radical re-imaginings of his older material, not necessarily for the better mind you, but certainly nothing like KC's rather scrupulous versions of the 1970s material. I agree the current KC is clearly a "nostalgia act" - if compared for instance with the 2003 tour which had little to no pre-1995 material in the setlist - with the three-drummer thing its main, if not only, claim to innovation.

This being said, I loved all three shows I saw on last year's tour.

Stumpybunker
03-10-2016, 10:49 AM
I'm just going to enjoy watching and listening to what they play on the night. It's King Crimson! No over analysis, pseudo intellectual ramblings, over this or that. I'm going to live in the moment. And enjoy!

jamesmanzi
03-10-2016, 11:08 AM
I'm just going to enjoy watching and listening to what they play on the night. It's King Crimson! No over analysis, pseudo intellectual ramblings, over this or that. I'm going to live in the moment. And enjoy!

Fine, if you can't enjoy the pure bliss brought by calculating the ratio of songs played from one era verses another era of a band's history, against the the ratio of songs from one era verses another era played by a previous lineup of the same band, multiplied by the number of drummers, divided by the subjective efficient use of those drummers over the objective efficient use, factoring in the amount of movement allowed by the tailoring of their suits, and finally measuring the creativity applied to the newest arrangements of older material in comparison to an unrelated artist's likewise rearranging, ultimately determining if they're a nostalgia act or a fresh, vibrant creative force... well, then... what were we talking about?

Phlakaton
03-10-2016, 11:19 AM
Fine, if you can't enjoy the pure bliss brought by calculating the ratio of songs played from one era verses another era of a band's history, against the the ratio of songs from one era verses another era played by a previous lineup of the same band, multiplied by the number of drummers, divided by the subjective efficient use of those drummers over the objective efficient use, factoring in the amount of movement allowed by the tailoring of their suits, and finally measuring the creativity applied to the newest arrangements of older material in comparison to an unrelated artist's likewise rearranging, ultimately determining if they're a nostalgia act or a fresh, vibrant creative force... well, then... what were we talking about?

Lol. I needed that.

Dave (in MA)
03-10-2016, 11:40 AM
Suits?


Could be worse (http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/photo-of-king-crimson-l-to-r-tony-levin-adrian-belew-bill-bruford-picture-id85848196).

Stumpybunker
03-10-2016, 11:56 AM
Fine, if you can't enjoy the pure bliss brought by calculating the ratio of songs played from one era verses another era of a band's history, against the the ratio of songs from one era verses another era played by a previous lineup of the same band, multiplied by the number of drummers, divided by the subjective efficient use of those drummers over the objective efficient use, factoring in the amount of movement allowed by the tailoring of their suits, and finally measuring the creativity applied to the newest arrangements of older material in comparison to an unrelated artist's likewise rearranging, ultimately determining if they're a nostalgia act or a fresh, vibrant creative force... well, then... what were we talking about?

����

Nijinsky Hind
03-10-2016, 12:27 PM
Suits?


Could be worse (http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/photo-of-king-crimson-l-to-r-tony-levin-adrian-belew-bill-bruford-picture-id85848196).

hahah :lol

Long live the hairy chest.

Showing how differently we all perceive certain things... I thought the suits were a first class touch... And a smart decision.

Haruspex Carnage
03-10-2016, 01:10 PM
There are way, way too many paragraphs for me to weigh in substantially here...but i'll echo the sentiments of disappointment i think...i've seen this line-up 6 times and there's no real sense of adventure or exploration...i hope this is just RF getting the past out of his system what with all the remaster work to move onto new ways of doing things, but the dude's over 70...what ripping new approaches ARE there GOING to be from him at this point? i still love them, but, you know, it's sort of old hat now...

You want really out there cool stuff these days, i'd recommend going modern "jazz"...THEY need your support!

Kcrimso
03-10-2016, 01:21 PM
You want really out there cool stuff these days, i'd recommend going modern "jazz"...THEY need your support!

Kind of ironic considering you have supported latest King Crimson incarnation six times! :D

Nijinsky Hind
03-10-2016, 01:44 PM
Play the older stuff, play the older stuff! Why wont they play the older stuff!!?? We all howled year after year.

Here it is in spades... With Mel no less! With core members approaching their 70s and newer ones joining in... A few no longer on this earth! i'm kinda glad. I've been listening and I think it's just great. Bill Reiflin somehow pulls off the mellotron Just as I remember it and even adds touches that actually work and plays drums besides! The Three drums will prove to be a doorway to some pretty interesting new ideas in my opinion. Like most of us, in the past I've pissed and moaned about things but after reading DS seething smackdown yesterday I think I'll just shut up and listen from this point on. I felt that uppercut all the way here in walla walla... It could have just as easily landed on my chin... With all of my brilliant observations and critiques...:oops

Polska
03-10-2016, 01:45 PM
There are way, way too many paragraphs for me to weigh in substantially here...but i'll echo the sentiments of disappointment i think...i've seen this line-up 6 times and there's no real sense of adventure or exploration...i hope this is just RF getting the past out of his system what with all the remaster work to move onto new ways of doing things, but the dude's over 70...what ripping new approaches ARE there GOING to be from him at this point? i still love them, but, you know, it's sort of old hat now...

You want really out there cool stuff these days, i'd recommend going modern "jazz"...THEY need your support!


So then I'm guessing that's it - a 7th KC concert is out of the question.

Haruspex Carnage
03-10-2016, 01:52 PM
Haha...keep in mind 3 of those times were for free with me on TL's and PM's campers guest-list.

bondegezou
03-11-2016, 11:38 AM
Fine, if you can't enjoy the pure bliss brought by calculating the ratio of songs played from one era verses another era of a band's history, against the the ratio of songs from one era verses another era played by a previous lineup of the same band, multiplied by the number of drummers, divided by the subjective efficient use of those drummers over the objective efficient use, factoring in the amount of movement allowed by the tailoring of their suits, and finally measuring the creativity applied to the newest arrangements of older material in comparison to an unrelated artist's likewise rearranging, ultimately determining if they're a nostalgia act or a fresh, vibrant creative force... well, then... what were we talking about?

This is King Crimson we're talking about. If this isn't the band for "pseudo intellectual ramblings", which one is?

Henry

N_Singh
03-11-2016, 02:30 PM
Adrian posted a recent interview he did in Italy---KC related material




Q: Is there any chance, in the next future, to see again the Crimson Projekct on stage?

a: Tony Levin said he would prefer not to be active in both bands at the same time. what we do next, if anything, is therefore out of my hands. I hope we do more together.

q: Will ever The Crimson Project edit a studio album?

a: not anytime soon but it's always possible.

q: In a recent interview (http://www.artistsandbands.org/ver2/interviste/7173-bill-bruford-yes-king-crimson-earthworks), talking about King Crimson, Bill Bruford told that he hasn’t seen the band with three drummers, but that seems a bit excessive to him. What do you think about the new incarnation?

a: I don't know anything about the new King Crimson. I haven't heard it nor seen it nor even read a single review of it. I was told I wasn't needed so I have moved on with things I am part of and I am happy.

q: In the same interview, talking about his experience with bands featuring two drummers, he remembered the improvisation over King Crimson’s "Indiscipline" and "Waiting Man" with you (“I loved improvising over King Crimson’s "Indiscipline" with Adrian Belew keeping the steady simple drum kit beat. "Waiting Man" was great too, on the pitched electronic pads"). What about your experience on drums with Bill?

a: even five years after his retirement Bill Bruford remains my favorite drummer. he generously taught me things I continue to use in my playing and he's a great person and friend.

q: I consider “A Scarcity Of Miracles (A King Crimson Projekct)” by Jakszyk, Fripp & Collins with Levin & Harrison, the lowest point, artistically speaking, of the Crimson discography. There are excellent musicians playing there, but in my opinion, it results poor and a bit anonymous. In my opinion, this was due to your absence. And in fact, that album is the first, after 30 years, without your contribution. What do you think about it? Did you listen to it?

a: I answered that question above.

q: The "new" Crimson are fully involved in the old repertoire. Could it have happened with you?

a: probably not. from what I know secondhand Robert was correct in telling me I am not right for what they are doing now.

q: Why the Crimson with you did not play old tracks (except "Red")? I mean, would you be in favour of playing songs belonging to the past?

a: we were more interested in creating new music than recreating older music. if I were in the band today new music would still be my priority.

q: What's your favourite Crimson's album (not necessarily with you as a member) and why?

a: Discipline was our best effort and my favorite of the records I'm part of. of the records I had no part in I like In The Court Of The Crimson King and Red best.

q: What's the worst (not necessarily with you as a member) and why?

a: I haven't heard a bad record from King Crimson. my personal worst experience was the making of the Beat album, but I stilI enjoy the record. I am proud to have been part of King Crimson.

NogbadTheBad
03-11-2016, 02:48 PM
I hope they asked him a bunch of non-KC questions. He still seems bitter about it but that seems understandable.

polmico
03-11-2016, 03:32 PM
Didn't Bruford attend a recent show? I could've sworn I saw something posted on FB about that.

Mister Triscuits
03-11-2016, 03:39 PM
Didn't Bruford attend a recent show? I could've sworn I saw something posted on FB about that.

Yes, he was at the "friends and family" pre-tour show last August.

http://papabear.com/tours/crim15/crim15julygraphics/after2_aug29.jpg

MudShark22
03-11-2016, 03:46 PM
IIRC, Bill made a comment as the drum trio being unbalanced and perhaps needed a 'fourth'! Of course, in good jest though.:up

Dave (in MA)
03-11-2016, 04:40 PM
Of course, in good jest though.:up
Dammit.

notallwhowander
03-11-2016, 09:32 PM
q: I consider “A Scarcity Of Miracles (A King Crimson Projekct)” by Jakszyk, Fripp & Collins with Levin & Harrison, the lowest point, artistically speaking, of the Crimson discography. There are excellent musicians playing there, but in my opinion, it results poor and a bit anonymous. In my opinion, this was due to your absence. And in fact, that album is the first, after 30 years, without your contribution. What do you think about it? Did you listen to it?

a: I answered that question above.

That's class, IMO. It also tells me that this wasn't a face to face interview, but some kind of electronic text exchange.

I get the impression that Adrian is guarding himself against bitterness by keeping his attention elsewhere. Why go to that party where you know your ex will be?

jkelman
03-13-2016, 07:34 PM
Scarcity seems somewhat of a King Crimson anomaly to me. I have played it probably only 3 or 4 times... Nothing clicked. Not saying its a bad album, but there was nothing for me personally to 'grab on to' with it. Maybe time to try it again.

As I said in another thread....Scarcity is NOT a King Crimson album. Never intended to be.

jkelman
03-13-2016, 08:19 PM
When I went to see Crimson in 2014, I mainly wanted to feel the amazement and joy of hearing Fripp, Mel Collins, and Tony Levin playing. I wanted to engage with the music. However I really disliked the whole presentation of the band, which effected my enjoyment of the music. I felt like Fripp was hiding from the audience by putting his battery of drums up front.....
Fripp was lit up, like the rest of the band, for the first time in decades. He engaged in eye contact with the band, and with the audience for the first time in decades. Let's face it...Fripp as never been an evocative/charismatic stage presence (beyond what he plays, which is plenty evocative and charismatic enough for me!), but in this band he was as visible as anyone else. The three-drummer frontline was introduced long before the tours and it's purpose well-explained (including, I'd like to think, by me in my two extensive reviews). I don't have any problems that you didn't like it, but criticizing Fripp when he's been more engaged than anytime since the '70s seems odd to me, as the last couple of tours I saw him with Crimson he was completely in the dark, and only engaged with the audience when he saw someone with a camera :)


Maybe it's petty to criticize the suits and motionlessness, but to me it increased the distance between Fripp & company and the audience. The taped "no fun allowed" lecture at the beginning of the show also didn't help. I felt distanced and disengaged from the band while being under sonic assault from the drums battery. It may be Crimson, but it's still rock and roll. At least it should be.
I've never considered Crimson rock and roll. Barring 21stCSM, the first album is about as much th antithesis of r&r as you can get....ditto, for the matter, everything up to LTIA and especially Lizard. Me? Liked the taped "no photo unless Tony is taking pictures" intro was great; funny, in a dry way, and far less confrontations than, say, Keith Jarrett - or, for that matter, Fripp of the past (and, sadly, the other night in Toronto last fall). I know others who responded as you have to that taped intro, so clearly it reaches different people differently, but just saying that it absolutely had the complete opposite effect on me.


The following month I saw Adrian Belew's Power Trio in a small venue....Adrian and his band were bursting with energy...created an atmosphere of total joy. Plus Adrian hung out after the show to talk to anyone who approached him. He's an amazing guy. Fripp and the new Crimson were staid and dour by comparison.
Different bands. Different performers with different ways of engaging. You can like one more than the other, but expecting Fripp to be like Belew and Crimson sans Belew to be like it was with is just unrealistic. There are plenty of other bands I can think of who have minimal stage presence; in fact, when my wife and I saw Kate & Anna McGarrigle a couple of decades back - and I adore them - we walked away from the show saying "they didn't just have no stage presence...they had negative stage presence!”). Genesis, with the exception of their frontmen, were never particularly engaging (or, in th case of Banks, visually engaged) players either.

Again: different bands, different presentations. Both have merits. I just don't think that visuals were the intent of this Crimson, beyond, as I've already said, what was for me, at least, a potent front line of three drummers playing detailed yet open arrangements that fluctuated night after night. Pat is definitely the most boisterous of the bunch....but, then again, that also suits his personality. H's a very outgoing and energetic guy. Gavin is less so. So it's no surprise that the one who "looked" like he was having the most fun was Pat, because that's his personality. It doesn't mean, however, that the others weren't enjoying themselves. Not everyone shows it, is all.

As for meeting folks after? That's a nice bonus but is, in no way, a prerequisite. That it has become so is unfortunate, as it never used to be. For me, if the band delivers, that's all I need. If they are willing to engage after the show, sure, that's nice..but it doesn't make the show better or worse for it, at least for me.


Yes, obviously that statement was not literally true. It just reflected the frustrated fan's attitude toward the triple drum set-up, which I shared. He was just saying less is more, if you have the right guy.
It most certainly can be. But that was not the premise of this Crimson, and if you don't like it you really should just pass on future endeavours as it's not likely to change. This Crimson was all about three drummers as a mini-orchestra. Comparing the two is, I think, unfair because their purposes were competent different. And I love Bruford. But let's also not forget he was not crazy about the early '80s band when Fripp told him he wanted no cymbals....in this case, at least, this was three drummers very much enjoying what they were doing because they were onboard with the concept from the get-go.

Sure, less is more is a statement that many (including myself) use to point out that you don't always need a lot coming at you. But I thought they did a great job balancing the thunderous potential with greater delicacy and even elegance. It wa also, despite having three drummers and some compositions written solely for three drummers, not a band where there were a ton of drums solos (only one, really)... and I must say I was expecting more of that before I saw them for the first time.

I also think the concept gelled more as time went on, with their Montreal performances a year later even more fully evolved.


No, I don't know for a fact that the suits and statues came from Fripp. It's just my assumption. Like I said, Jakko was much more naturally animated and engaging when playing in the 21st Century Schizoid Band. ....Maybe I would have "got it" the 2nd or 3rd time. I'll say this about the 3 drummers, though - I did enjoy watching Pat M play. He seemed to be really into it and having a lot of fun. He actually seemed to be the only guy having fun....
See above re:Pat. As for suits and animation, I think Jakko was quit visual when he was singing...he certainly looked' to me, like he was "feeling" it. But there also wasn't a whole lot of room along that back line for much leaping around and guitar windmills :)


Speaking of Pat, I saw him last year playing with Julie Slick's band. They were amazing. Such incredible musicians and music (very Crimson and Belew influenced), and there were probably less than 20 people in the audience to see it. :(
That's the real shame, isn't it? That even though names that people know for their association with other bands come to town with other bands, folks only go out to see the ones they know. I think it's a shame that Stick Men play regularly to crowds of 100-150 in the USA, when Tony and Pat play to crowds 10x that size with Crimson...and for two or three nights.

I mean, Adam Holzman's profile with Steven Wilson has certainly gone up, despite having played with people like Miles Davis. His wife, Jane Getter, puts together a kickass band with Adam, Randy McStine, Bryan Beller and Chad Wackerman...and yet, the same thing applies. I mean, I wouldn't expect her to draw like Wilson does, but playing to 100 people with a band that includes folks who've played with everyone from Miles Davis to Frank Zappa? Phew. That just does not compute for me.


...I don't think the music benefits when Fripp decides everything. Let's face it, Fripp is a God and a genius, but he's also a weirdo. The music was better when Greg Lake, Ian McDonald, Bill Bruford, and Adrian Belew had big voices in it. I got the feeling that this Crimson was 100% how Fripp wanted it to be. I don't think that's a good thing. (Yes, I am a huge Adrian fan.)
I'm a huge Adrian fan too...but as I said in my first review of the new Crim, I think it was the right decision not to invite him into this incarnation, if for no other reason than he is an unignorable frontman, so even if he were on the back line, he'd have commanded all the attention Adrian just can't help it...it's who he is and always has been; it just wasn't appropriate for this Crimson. That said, I don't think Fripp is a god....as I don't think any musician deserves that much accolade. He's a uniquely talented, groundbreaking musician and bandleader who has influenced generations of guitarists and other musicians.i suspect, for him, that's more than enough :)

But saying the music was better when those other cats had voices in it? Well, Lizard remains my favourite Crimson album, and that was the last closest Crimson ever came to being a Fripp solo project. All the people you mention contributed significantly during their tenure, no doubt about it; but I think you're underselling what three drummers brought to this band...and what Gavin Harrison's incredible orchestrations gave them to do. I also think that everyone else in this band made it what it was...which, for you, was not so good, but for me was absolutely riveting. So yes, maybe you should see them again...who knows?

So, again, vive la différence, oui?

Cheers!
John



I bought the Toronto release. It's good, but it felt a bit sterile to me. I much prefer the live versions of those songs performed by the 70s versions of the band. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though. I look forward to the DVD. Maybe when I watch that, I'll see things differently.[/QUOTE]

Nijinsky Hind
03-13-2016, 08:37 PM
As I said in another thread....Scarcity is NOT a King Crimson album. Never intended to be.

Well yeah obviously.

jkelman
03-14-2016, 12:24 AM
Well yeah obviously.
Well, no, because people keep referring to it as a King Crimson album...including yourself ;)

That aside, I liked the album very much - for what it was, rather than for what it wasn't, perhaps being the big reason, as when it came out there were, imo, too many comparisons to Crimson; perhaps, as you say, giving it another shot and also having a gander at my review (http://www.allaboutjazz.com/a-scarcity-of-miracles-robert-fripp-panegyric-recordings-review-by-john-kelman.php) might give you a different perspective that might find you liking it a little more....

N_Singh
03-14-2016, 01:02 AM
As far as I'm concerned, while King Crimson is far and away my favorite rock band, in which I have hundreds of the records now, thanks to all the box sets and DGM downloads, The name doesn't mean anything to me it's just marketing. I just care about the musicians and the music they play. They could call themselves anything.

I never bought into the hype surrounding the rock and roll brand-name. It's just musicians playing music.

They don't have this kind of marketing in Jazz. They're generally are no "band names", it's just musicians playing music. Even the few "" brand names" that exist are fairly tepid sounding: the Jazz messengers, the modern Jazz Quartet. Etc

2steves
03-14-2016, 11:57 PM
how many drummers does it take to make one Bill Bruford?---apparently 3 but still like the sound of one Bill Bruford than 3 drummers.

unclemeat
03-15-2016, 08:54 AM
From Toyah :
"Because Bill [Rieflin] is neither with KING CRIMSON this year nor the HUMANS Robert is talking of re-releasing [sic] a live album of SUNDAY ALL OVER THE WORLD and a REMIXED version of KNEELING AT THE SHRINE because he will not record any new KC until Bill is back in action next year, this means SAOTW has his time and attention. I doubt the release will happen this year…….but it has gone into production as far as planning is concerned."

Fripp has also recently posted a video snippet from the League of Gentlemen live at Leeds on his FB page. Perhaps a hint ? Presumably there is film of the whole performance, perhaps this is one of the "unreleased gems from the 1980s being unearthed"... (afaik there has been no official mention of a KC 80's box).

BravadoNJ
03-15-2016, 03:12 PM
3 drummers to make one Bill Bruford.... 4 drummers to make one Michael Giles....

polmico
03-15-2016, 05:07 PM
Oh I'd be in for some Sunday All Over the World love.

Drake
03-16-2016, 12:05 PM
Oh I'd be in for some Sunday All Over the World love.

Me too!

bondegezou
03-23-2016, 02:15 PM
So, my CD copy of the Live on Tokyo album came. Still listening to it, only partway through, so these are only preliminary thoughts. Good album; I am enjoying it. Collins and the three percussionists give this incarnation a distinct flavour, which is nice. Yet I do also hear sometimes a certain stiltedness, as others have commented on. It feels as if this group isn't letting loose, it occasionally misses that sense of sitting on a volcano, about to erupt, that I get from, say, live '70s Crimson. I've also been listening to Crimson! by the Delta Saxophone Quartet with Gwilym Simcock -- nice album BTW -- which sees the band exploring several Crimson pieces. That album somehow feels more alive than the live Crimson album.

Henry

bondegezou
03-23-2016, 04:17 PM
^ Mostly liking the album, but while Collins and 3 drummers add a distinct flavour, sometimes it feels like they're just allowed to tinker round the edges. These pieces have not been broken down and re-built for a new line-up (as you get with the Delta Saxophone Quartet or the Morgaua Quartet).

"Radical Action...", contrary to the name, is generic, Crimson-by-numbers piece. Thankfully, "Meltdown" is more interesting, but still needs work. "Red"... Ohmigod, this is the most plodding version I've ever heard.

Henry

jamesmanzi
03-23-2016, 04:20 PM
Has Red ever been groovy? It's kind of a plodder by nature.

Facelift
03-23-2016, 04:51 PM
^ Mostly liking the album, but while Collins and 3 drummers add a distinct flavour, sometimes it feels like they're just allowed to tinker round the edges.

I've been saying this since the new edition debuted: the three drummers are primarily there for the visual impact at the live shows, and in that respect it worked fantastically. Nothing wrong with just the music, IMO, but you are correct that the drummers weren't used to re-arrange the furniture in as meaningful a way as that might have - had that actually been the goal. In any event, the current version of King Crimson is so far ahead of its contemporaries that beefing about how much better such and such could have been seems silly to me. There isn't a single one of the still-functioning '70s prog bands that is anywhere close to King Crimson right now.

Dave (in MA)
03-23-2016, 04:55 PM
Has Red ever been groovy? It's kind of a plodder by nature.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFil1YlH2M4 ;)

jamesmanzi
03-23-2016, 05:06 PM
Touché.

Nijinsky Hind
03-23-2016, 05:44 PM
I've been saying this since the new edition debuted: the three drummers are primarily there for the visual impact at the live shows, and in that respect it worked fantastically. Nothing wrong with just the music, IMO, but you are correct that the drummers weren't used to re-arrange the furniture in as meaningful a way as that might have - had that actually been the goal. In any event, the current version of King Crimson is so far ahead of its contemporaries that beefing about how much better such and such could have been seems silly to me. There isn't a single one of the still-functioning '70s prog bands that is anywhere close to King Crimson right now.
Dude... Well said!

AncientChord
03-23-2016, 06:27 PM
I've been saying this since the new edition debuted: the three drummers are primarily there for the visual impact at the live shows, and in that respect it worked fantastically. Nothing wrong with just the music, IMO, but you are correct that the drummers weren't used to re-arrange the furniture in as meaningful a way as that might have - had that actually been the goal. In any event, the current version of King Crimson is so far ahead of its contemporaries that beefing about how much better such and such could have been seems silly to me. There isn't a single one of the still-functioning '70s prog bands that is anywhere close to King Crimson right now.

Gee whiz, is there any classic prog bands even left from the 1970's? No ELP sadly, no Genesis, a laughable, desperate YES, no Gentle Giant, a much less energetic Curved Air, a PFM with no Mussida or Premoli, no Neil Peart maybe no Rush? . Did I miss any? I'm sure I did, but really any of the big names left? Crimson is still the King.

Mister Triscuits
03-23-2016, 06:38 PM
Gee whiz, is there any classic prog bands even left from the 1970's? No ELP sadly, no Genesis, a laughable, desperate YES, no Gentle Giant, a much less energetic Curved Air, a PFM with no Mussida or Premoli, no Neil Peart maybe no Rush? . Did I miss any? I'm sure I did, but really any of the big names left? Crimson is still the King.

Strawbs still exist with a pretty classic lineup, no? And there's still a Procol Harum, although Gary Brooker is the only old-time member left (unless you count Keith Reid), but last I heard he still sounds awesome.

AncientChord
03-23-2016, 06:51 PM
Strawbs still exist with a pretty classic lineup, no? And there's still a Procol Harum, although Gary Brooker is the only old-time member left (unless you count Keith Reid), but last I heard he still sounds awesome.

Agree, and I did miss a big one: Van Der Graaf Generator. :oops

Mister Triscuits
03-23-2016, 06:52 PM
Oh yeah, duh!

Nijinsky Hind
03-23-2016, 06:53 PM
Agree, and I did miss a big one: Van Der Graaf Generator. :oops

Aah yes... But none of these hold either the crown nor the sceptre!!!;)

AncientChord
03-23-2016, 07:04 PM
Aah yes... But none of these hold the either the crown nor the sceptre!!!;)

I do admire Hammill, Banton and Evans in continuing VDGG, although their classic sound is IMO weak without the sax and flute. Even if they didn't ever want Jackson again, I wish they would fill that empty seat and balance the band again. Maybe they could borrow Mel Collins or get Ian McDonald?

Steve F.
03-23-2016, 07:28 PM
. "Red"... Ohmigod, this is the most plodding version I've ever heard.

Henry

Henry

When listening to the album for the first time today, my exact quote to a pal was, "Red does NOT need 3 drummers; man this live version is LUMPY."

You're welcome! :lol

bondegezou
03-24-2016, 05:07 AM
Henry

When listening to the album for the first time today, my exact quote to a pal was, "Red does NOT need 3 drummers; man this live version is LUMPY."

You're welcome! :lol

I see that I was right to have always considered you a wise man.

Henry

bondegezou
03-24-2016, 05:13 AM
There isn't a single one of the still-functioning '70s prog bands that is anywhere close to King Crimson right now.

Well, I wouldn't say that, although Crimson are doing many things right. But to throw out some suggestions... The UK reunion was playing great, but I guess they've just wound themselves up.

Marillion? Technically, they did begin in the 1970s... although their first show was in early 1980 and they were still called Silmarillion...

What about Soft Machine?

Henry

Frumious B
03-24-2016, 05:26 AM
I said a few weeks ago that I felt that the only artists left from that 60s/70s generation who were still delivering work on par with some of their best were David Bowie and Paul McCartney. Then Bowie died a few days later. It seems like Van Der Graaf Generator has been delivering the goods since they got back together too.

Spiral
03-24-2016, 08:31 AM
There's Magma.


What about Soft Machine?
If mutations count, then you can also say Gong.


"Red does NOT need 3 drummers; man this live version is LUMPY."
The drum arrangement is the reason I mentioned Red as one of the songs that benefits from this lineup (albeit not as much as the 90s/00s pieces). It could use a bit more speed, but the staggered rhythms at least give it more of a changed flavor more than the band does with the other older stuff.

per anporth
03-24-2016, 08:52 AM
So, my CD copy of the Live on Tokyo album came. Still listening to it, only partway through, so these are only preliminary thoughts. Good album; I am enjoying it. Collins and the three percussionists give this incarnation a distinct flavour, which is nice. Yet I do also hear sometimes a certain stiltedness, as others have commented on. It feels as if this group isn't letting loose, it occasionally misses that sense of sitting on a volcano, about to erupt, that I get from, say, live '70s Crimson. I've also been listening to Crimson! by the Delta Saxophone Quartet with Gwilym Simcock -- nice album BTW -- which sees the band exploring several Crimson pieces. That album somehow feels more alive than the live Crimson album.

Henry

Do you mean Live in Toronto?!

I agree that the music doesn't seem to have been particularly radically deconstructed for the 3 drummers - but, by contrast to what you're hearing, my impression listening was that it really came alive - that this format has allowed the band to find itself again, in a way, & to play with real elan.

I checked out the Delta Sax Quartet - both their reinterpretations of Crimson, & of Soft Machine. I have to say, I thought they were dreadful (especially so when compared, for instance, with the Crimson Jazz Trio [who actually manage to transform the originals into genuine jazz works, like Dylan Howe managed with his superb reinterpretations of Bowie's Berlin records])!

Facelift
03-24-2016, 08:57 AM
Well, I wouldn't say that, although Crimson are doing many things right. But to throw out some suggestions... The UK reunion was playing great, but I guess they've just wound themselves up.

Marillion? Technically, they did begin in the 1970s... although their first show was in early 1980 and they were still called Silmarillion...

What about Soft Machine?

Henry

I don't count Marillion among King Crimson's 1970s peers. "'70s prog" is pretty self-explanatory, and existing for a minute or two at the end of the 1970s wouldn't qualify.

The others are good examples of older artists doing well, but they're not on the level of what King Crimson is doing, IMO.

Kcrimso
03-24-2016, 09:04 AM
I checked out the Delta Sax Quartet - both their reinterpretations of Crimson, & of Soft Machine. I have to say, I thought they were dreadful (especially so when compared, for instance, with the Crimson Jazz Trio [who actually manage to transform the originals into genuine jazz works, like Dylan Howe managed with his superb reinterpretations of Bowie's Berlin records])!

I also was quite disappointed with Delta Sax Quarter's versions of Crimson music. And yeah, Crimson Jazz Trio is great!

battema
03-24-2016, 09:30 AM
I'd put Magma on the table as a 70's contemporary still delivering the goods.

chalkpie
03-24-2016, 09:30 AM
I'd put Magma on the table as a 70's contemporary still delivering the goods.

....and then some.

Facelift
03-24-2016, 09:42 AM
I'd put Magma on the table as a 70's contemporary still delivering the goods.

Don't know how I could have forgotten about them. Yes, they're right up there as well.

jkelman
03-24-2016, 02:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFil1YlH2M4 ;)
I reviewed both Crimson Jazz Trio records. You can read them here (http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article_center.php?in_artist=Crimson+Jazz+Trio&in_album=&in_label=&in_author=kelman&in_type=0).

polmico
04-14-2016, 07:01 PM
Has anyone here got a shipping notice from DGM for club #42? Supposedly shipping out last week, but I haven't heard anything since.

And I'm still waiting for Toronto, too ...

JKL2000
04-14-2016, 07:26 PM
I reviewed both Crimson Jazz Trio records. You can read them here (http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article_center.php?in_artist=Crimson+Jazz+Trio&in_album=&in_label=&in_author=kelman&in_type=0).

I love those albums! Will read your review as soon as I have a chance.

Mister Triscuits
04-14-2016, 07:51 PM
Has anyone here got a shipping notice from DGM for club #42? Supposedly shipping out last week, but I haven't heard anything since.

I received my copy on Monday.

polmico
04-14-2016, 08:36 PM
Well ... just ... Dammit.

mozo-pg
04-14-2016, 08:55 PM
Well ... just ... Fuck.

;)

chalkpie
04-14-2016, 08:58 PM
Well ... just ... in.....Beiber

7332

Mister Triscuits
04-14-2016, 10:33 PM
Well ... just ... Dammit.

It's very cool stuff, I enjoyed the hell out of it, but it's not much in the composition department. It's mostly just jamming over vamps, waiting for ideas to fall out of the sky. You can see why they were frustrated with the results. Still, there are a lot of basic parts that did end up forming the foundation for songs on 3ooPP. Most of these have titles that link them to the finished songs; one that doesn't features the "No Warning" loop.

Spiral
04-20-2016, 02:53 PM
Robert Fripp reveals work is progressing on the King Crimson full-length, in-concert CD/Blu-ray, Live In Takamatsu, which will be available later this year. Joining Fripp and Singleton in DGMHQ today, is producer Chris Porter.


7381

RF must be rethinking that classic "Every KC video from Japan sucks" rule.

Dave (in MA)
04-20-2016, 04:40 PM
ICYMI, I stuck this in the Stick Men thread last night.
http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=27&show=2055

kenticus
04-21-2016, 12:23 PM
Robert Fripp reveals work is progressing on the King Crimson full-length, in-concert CD/Blu-ray, Live In Takamatsu, which will be available later this year. Joining Fripp and Singleton in DGMHQ today, is producer Chris Porter.


7381

RF must be rethinking that classic "Every KC video from Japan sucks" rule.

Kind of disappointed it's all one show and not the compilation originally discussed....only because there's a slot on that night wasted by scarcity that a song like one more red nightmare could replace....beggars cannot be choosers though

hell in surprised given fripps stance on recording that he even relented to letting them film the whole euro and Japanese tour, albeit all with stationary cameras, but then again he's expressed before how his view is that filming and recording are cool if the artist wants it and is comfortable with those who are doing it...

It is possibly they're doing his full show on cd and dvd and then including bonus cuts of stuff not performed that night like sailors tale, vroom, one more red nightmare, etc.

Sean
04-21-2016, 12:32 PM
Kinda bummed those are not on the DVD.

WHAT DID THEY PLAY THAT NIGHT?

NogbadTheBad
04-21-2016, 12:36 PM
Sailors Tale should be included in any dvd from that tour, it was a highlight.

Sean
04-21-2016, 12:37 PM
No doubt. WTF?

NogbadTheBad
04-21-2016, 12:39 PM
Walk On: Monk Morph Chamber Music
Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part One
(Mel Collins plays Kimigayo on flute solo)
Pictures of a City
Peace: An End
(Jakko Jakszyk sings 1st verse in Japanese lyric)
Radical Action (To Unseat the Hold of Monkey Mind)
Meltdown
Radical Action (To Unseat the Hold of Monkey Mind)
Level Five
Epitaph
Hell Hounds of Krim
The ConstruKction of Light
A Scarcity of Miracles
Red
Banshee Legs Bell Hassle
Easy Money
The Talking Drum
Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part Two
Starless
Encore:
The Court of the Crimson King
21st Century Schizoid Man

unclemeat
04-22-2016, 03:59 AM
Trey Gunn on some new band he likes :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQT79mz9khs

helix
02-10-2017, 01:04 PM
tickets on sale next friday for King Crimson's Red Bank NJ show sunday July 9th :

9816

Obscured
02-10-2017, 01:30 PM
tickets on sale next friday for King Crimson's Red Bank NJ show sunday July 9th :

9816
Yep, I'm in. Great theatre, easy 2 hour commute.9817

kenticus
02-10-2017, 02:06 PM
tickets on sale next friday for King Crimson's Red Bank NJ show sunday July 9th :

9816

Odd....thought their plan was west coast in June / July then onto the east coast in autumn? At least that's what they'd initially been saying.....

Assuming now that this and that one other date are out, they'll announce the full list soonish right???

Gizmotron
02-10-2017, 02:08 PM
Odd....thought their plan was west coast in June / July then onto the east coast in autumn? At least that's what they'd initially been saying.....

Assuming now that this and that one other date are out, they'll announce the full list soonish right???

Please!
(Because if they will play near me I need to schedule that bank robbery to afford tickets)

gojikranz
02-10-2017, 02:15 PM
Please!
(Because if they will play near me I need to schedule that bank robbery to afford tickets)

seriously plus june july isn't that far out some calendar spots starting to fill in so would like to be able to schedule effectively.