Reporting a store selling bootlegs

[Frumious B]

There's a store near me that is selling cdr burned copies of various live sets downloaded from dimeadozen. Anyone ever reported something like this? Does the "report piracy" link on the RIAA site do anything?

[Dave (in MA)]

You can report them to dime: http://wiki.dimeadozen.org/index.php/DimeTOS:Bootleg_Sellers

[ronmac]

This is not piracy. Bootlegging and piracy are different and the RIAA has done a good job of conflating the two, because they have less-clear authority over bootlegging. It's still a disputed gray area.

[ronmac]

I read that Dime page and all they can really do is not allow the perpetrator to participate in their community.

Clearly, they never had any authority and I would be very surprised if they would get involved any deeper than their own community for fear of shining too much light on what they're doing.

[Dave (in MA)]

Dimeadozen maintains a list of artists who've forbidden their work from being hosted there, so if some dipshit is downloading and burning CDs for sale, you could argue that they're charging people for what they could do themselves and not doing anything illegal.

[80s were ok]

that's funny- I mean, isn't dimedozen bootlegs anyway? Who cares - people have been selling bootlegs since the beginning of time. I won't destroy the industry now any more or any less than when it was happening in the 70's or 60's or whatever. Remember...snitches get stiches.

[meimjustalawnmower]

There's a store near me that is selling cdr burned copies of various live sets downloaded from dimeadozen. Anyone ever reported something like this? Does the "report piracy" link on the RIAA site do anything?

Name the store now or let it go.

[3LockBox]

I'll report it!

but can I peruse it first?


;)

[Yodelgoat]

...but the industry is being destroyed as I type...

Bootlegs, dont destroy, but neither do they contribute to its success. (Ok - I'm ready for the eggs to fly at me)

[ronmac]

Bootlegs, dont destroy, but neither do they contribute to its success

I would add some nuance here. Selling bootlegs may not contribute. However, bands do benefit by allowing free trading of field recordings.

[80s were ok]

The Sam Goody in Atlantic City used to sell bootlegs. They called the section "Imports". Ah, the good ol' days.

[Sunlight Caller]

As a music hungry teen I used to delight when a record store would let me peruse the box of vinyl boots hidden under the counter. The joy of finding something live that you didn't have were huge. Of course with everything now available at a mouse click, I can't imagine the thrills are the same or the profit. Why bother buying if you can download, make a CDR and print up a nice cover? Why make a CDR when you can just keep the file and stream it or play it on your iPod? I don't think it kills anything either, people who buy / collect live boots have bought everything else by their favourite artist.

[enpdllp]

Why bother buying if you can download, make a CDR and print up a nice cover?

Because there is still quite a lot of folks that do not know about Dime and other torrent sites.


I don't think it kills anything either, people who buy / collect live boots have bought everything else by their favourite artist.

QFT

[Frumious B]

Name the store now or let it go.

Don't want to name the store. I did go ahead and report them on the RIAA page though.

[davis]

Don't want to name the store. I did go ahead and report them on the RIAA page though.

You did the right thing. A former record store owner here was taken to court for selling bootlegs in his store and convicted. At the time it was a felony. Making and collecting bootleg recordings is fine as long as there are no sales/profits involved.

[Facelift]

that's funny- I mean, isn't dimedozen bootlegs anyway? Who cares - people have been selling bootlegs since the beginning of time. I won't destroy the industry now any more or any less than when it was happening in the 70's or 60's or whatever. Remember...snitches get stiches.

Agreed. Other than, at most, writing a letter to the bands in question, there is nothing to do/see here. If record stores could make any significant money by doing this, there'd be a lot more stores doing it. This is just a tax on the ignorant.

[Brian Griffin]

Narc

BG

[Gruno]

I've been wanting to see Rhino Records in Claremont, CA be raided for all the bootlegs they sell and pass off as "imports". I will never support that establishment. Apparently some clown from the band Djam Karet is owner or partial owner. I do hope he gets a size 12 shoe up his arse!

[Cats On Glue]

people mourn the death of the brick and morter record shops. maybe selling some boots makes them enough extra $ to pay the electricity bill, and keep them open so they can also sell some legit stuff. Its tough out there for these places.

[Trane]

I've got no big problems with boots... although I've very rarely bought some (though I've seen tons in record shop bins since the 70's) , it's certainly not shocking to me...

Just like some boot labels reissuing illegaly some long OOP albums that the right sources are neglecting or refusing... jkst wish the price would be correct or if they remain that high, then the artistes should see some money for it (but I'm dreaming here, of course)

Now pirating TAAB or TFTO (or even Madonna's albums) is a whole different ballgame...

[Frumious B]

people mourn the death of the brick and morter record shops. maybe selling some boots makes them enough extra $ to pay the electricity bill, and keep them open so they can also sell some legit stuff. Its tough out there for these places.

Not a place that I will mourn, too sleazy.

[Big Ears]

When HMV go out of business, there won't be any record shops left here.

[Rael]

There's a store near me that is selling cdr burned copies of various live sets downloaded from dimeadozen. Anyone ever reported something like this? Does the "report piracy" link on the RIAA site do anything?

Just curious: how do you know the shows were procured from Dimeadozen?

[davis]

H3 comments on downloading/bootlegging. I think it's around the 6-min area


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWBlOJqOxNA

[paythesnuka]

Biggest problem I see with a record store selling bootlegs procured from DIME (besides the fact that they are profiting on the hard work of people who have allowed the FREE trading of the material) is that a musician/band that has allowed the sharing of shows on DIME could decide otherwise because he/she/they don't want scummy bootleg sellers profiting on their work. I bet a lot of musicians that allow bootleg trading would change their thoughts on the subject if they knew someone was profiting.

[ronmac]

I'm not sure everything being downloaded via Dime is endorsed by the artists.

[Cats On Glue]

if the store sells these bootlegs by a group but also carries and sells official releases from same group, is that good or bad for the group? If the store is out of business and no longer selling legit or bootlegs, isthat good or bad? nobody is forcing anybody to buy the bootlegs. How about the service provided? does anybody know somebody who is a music fan but is still not on a computer, or streaming or downloading? i think i might know people who would spend money on that, because they wouldn't know how to get it it themselves.

[ronmac]

There was a time when you could go to the local record fair and buy tons of them. Then there was a HUGE bust and it was all gone. From what I understand, things are trickling back in. But, now you can find just about anything online, so it seems to me more of a folly trying to make money, considering the risk of doing so.

[davis]

I'm not sure everything being downloaded via Dime is endorsed by the artists.

not necessarily, but everything here is: http://archive.org/browse.php?collection=etree&field=%2Fmetadata%2Fcreator

[paythesnuka]

I'm not sure everything being downloaded via Dime is endorsed by the artists.

No, not every artist has given the OK. That's why I said "a musician" rather than "every musician." Only a select few have actually contacted DIME to allow the trading of their material (usually it's a letter that states the band is OK with trading audience recordings but not OK trading soundboard recordings).

[Frumious B]

Just curious: how do you know the shows were procured from Dimeadozen?

Many of the shows I see are also on DaD. Also they are just cdrs with crude handwritten notation. This joint is selling for $20 a pop.

[Gruno]

if the store sells these bootlegs by a group but also carries and sells official releases from same group, is that good or bad for the group? If the store is out of business and no longer selling legit or bootlegs, isthat good or bad? nobody is forcing anybody to buy the bootlegs. How about the service provided? does anybody know somebody who is a music fan but is still not on a computer, or streaming or downloading? i think i might know people who would spend money on that, because they wouldn't know how to get it it themselves.

What about people who buy music for others as a gift or kind gesture? I have received cds as gifts that were bootlegs. Horrible bootlegs. Those who bought them for me had no idea. Buyer beware, but they shouldn't have to be duped by the store they are buying it from.

[rapidfirerob]

Biggest problem I see with a record store selling bootlegs procured from DIME (besides the fact that they are profiting on the hard work of people who have allowed the FREE trading of the material) is that a musician/band that has allowed the sharing of shows on DIME could decide otherwise because he/she/they don't want scummy bootleg sellers profiting on their work. I bet a lot of musicians that allow bootleg trading would change their thoughts on the subject if they knew someone was profiting.
This is the answer.

[enpdllp]

There's a store near me that is selling cdr burned copies of various live sets downloaded from dimeadozen.


Many of the shows I see are also on DaD.

FWIW, many of the shows on Dime came from other sites and a good amount of shows that were originally seeded from Dime are also available at other sites. Very hard to prove that the shows you saw at the store were actually downloaded from Dime.


I did go ahead and report them on the RIAA page though.

I just hope that you did not have to mention Dime on your report to the RIAA.

[80s were ok]

fuddy-duddy!, yet you won't tell US the store?

[Frumious B]

FWIW, many of the shows on Dime came from other sites and a good amount of shows that were originally seeded from Dime are also available at other sites. Very hard to prove that the shows you saw at the store were actually downloaded from Dime.



I just hope that you did not have to mention Dime on your report to the RIAA.

I didn't say anything about Dime. It's just a little link where you can give the name and location plus a description. You aren't even required to give your contact info.

[Frumious B]

fuddy-duddy!, yet you won't tell US the store?

I want to wait a bit and see if anything funnish goes down first. My motives here aren't entirely just some "white knight" crusade against the sale of bootlegs. These cats ticked me off something fierce and getting them nailed by the RIAA for selling boots seems like a clean, legal, wholesome, safe and non-violent way to push back plus I get to help put a stop to something that I consider unethical.

[Facelift]

These cats ticked me off something fierce

Will we get to know what *that* was?

[JKL2000]

There were stores that sold ROIOs before the internet was anywhere near full swing, and I bought a lot of ROIOs from them that I really enjoyed (on both vinyl, CD, and VHS). Does it really matter if these are CDRs burned from recordings on Dime or "Silver CDs" mastered from ROIOs on tape or vinyl? Anyone who's paying for them probably doesn't know how or where to obtain them any other way. Is this so different from when I and others bought "silver CDs" or vinyl of ROIOs back in "the day" (I'm talking 1986/1987)? Maybe these people want to get their hands on them as much as I (we) did. People have always made money from selling ROIOs. People have always wanted ROIOs. Ideally everyone would know how to obtain these for free, but if there's a demand for them then obviously that's not the case.

IMO you don't need to report anything.

[Rael]

I think if anyone is paying for bootlegs, the fans are getting just as ripped off as the artists-if not, more so. I remember going to record conventions in the 80s and 90s and paying astronomical sums for bootleg vinyl and cassettes without having a clue as to where they were sourced from.

I'm not anti-bootleg by any means and I have a fairly large collection of them. But anyone with a PC and a little patience and some hard drive space should not be buying bootlegs. I suppose there are some people out there who don't realize and/or don't want to get into bit torrenting so they will fork over for CDrs. There is a mom and pop store near my workplace that sells bootlegs; mostly Grateful Dead stuff but a few other bands too. I don't know, I guess I just don't feel passionate enough about the argument over boots to report the store as I was once buying them myself.

[dropforge]

I want to wait a bit and see if anything funnish goes down first. My motives here aren't entirely just some "white knight" crusade against the sale of bootlegs. These cats ticked me off something fierce and getting them nailed by the RIAA for selling boots seems like a clean, legal, wholesome, safe and non-violent way to push back plus I get to help put a stop to something that I consider unethical.

Oh, so it's personal? Post a review on Yelp and move on.

[Jefferson James]

There was a time when you could go to the local record fair and buy tons of them. Then there was a HUGE bust and it was all gone. From what I understand, things are trickling back in. But, now you can find just about anything online, so it seems to me more of a folly trying to make money, considering the risk of doing so.

A good friend of mine and a HUGE supporter of local (LA) bands was busted a couple-three years ago -- because he had one Zeppelin boot in his possession at a swap meet. They confiscated everything he had, 99% of which were obscure local band videos, boots and legit recordings. A benefit was put on to help him with his legal bills and get his (legitimate) collection back. Sure, he was in the wrong but the "bust" was a bit overkill to those who know the guy. He's just a zealous fan, not a bootlegger!

[JKL2000]

A good friend of mine and a HUGE supporter of local (LA) bands was busted a couple-three years ago -- because he had one Zeppelin boot in his possession at a swap meet. They confiscated everything he had, 99% of which were obscure local band videos, boots and legit recordings. A benefit was put on to help him with his legal bills and get his (legitimate) collection back. Sure, he was in the wrong but the "bust" was a bit overkill to those who know the guy. He's just a zealous fan, not a bootlegger!

I'm not exactly sure what a swap-meet is. If people were just trading items that they owned (as opposed to selling "new" items) it seems like it was totally bogus to confiscate his stuff. It's not illegal to own bootleg albums, is it? Who confiscated the stuff from him, exactly?

[ronmac]

Maybe they were swapping bootleg CDs for money. ;)

[enpdllp]

I'm not exactly sure what a swap-meet is.

Sort of another name for a flea market. Those places are ripe with folks selling pirate copies of albums and maybe that day there was no pirated CD vendors and KerryKompost's friend was the fallout guy.


It's not illegal to own bootleg albums, is it?

I am almost certain that it is illegal, but not enforced by the authorities.


Who confiscated the stuff from him, exactly?

Usually the FBI or local law enforcers from a tip by the RIAA.

[Jefferson James]

Thanks enpdllp -- that's exactly right.

[solarpup]

I go to craft fairs here on L.I and there is often a guy selling hundreds of bootleg CDs and DVDs. The stuff is obviously not legit (Fuzzy cover art and all). If the "authorities" wanted to stop it they easily could. Nobody sems to care.

[solarpup]

not necessarily, but everything here is: http://archive.org/browse.php?collection=etree&field=%2Fmetadata%2Fcreator

archive.org is the greatest site on the entire web! (aside from maybe Fark and U-porn :P )
I downloaded a very cool live set by Barry Melton and John Cippolina a couple years back. Not to mention the old films and home movies, my faves are the "educational" films they tried to brainwash us with in skool....uh, school.

:)

[Arkangel3]

Years and years ago (70's), boots used to be only found in those record stores (particularly in Greenwich Village in NYC) that usually kept them in low profile of you had to ask about "special live recordings" from the owner who would then decide whether or not you planned on turning them in. In the 80's, same rules applied, but you got to listen to the recording before making a "final purchase". Then along came Dime that offered so many incredible shows for free...as long as the artist (s) didn't mind. If they did, they were removed from the tracker. As a rule, if I saw them on Dime's tracker (like Marillion) and I knew the band offered their own soundboards, I'd ALWAYS purchase from the band and the hell with the free stuff. I blew a TON of cash after Sounds That Can't Be Made live gigs after the album came out because the music was brill and I knew the band was making money off it. Forget about buying Crimson stuff, I always went to DGM as KC was always great for providing soundboards and other great sources of studio and live stuff. I have no problem with Dime, so long as I know the band doesn't either (Genesis was always great about swapping shows). I try and do the right thing by the artist FIRST and FOREMOST. That's why I'll buy Marillion or King Crimson shows, and if Yes ever started up a service like that, I'd be all over it. Santana had his shows removed from the tracker at Dime (or anything that wasn't up already they left on the tracker or took a gig off if it was a part of "Wolfgang's Vault" which is where he sells his soundboards these days...and they are quite great quality! The Sunrise theater shows from the reunion gig in '89 are jaw dropping and can be had on Flac or MP3. I bought a few other shows, too). You have to TRY and do right by the musician...feigning ignorance only goes so far.

[ronmac]

Years and years ago (70's), boots used to be only found in those record stores (particularly in Greenwich Village in NYC) that usually kept them in low profile of you had to ask about "special live recordings" from the owner who would then decide whether or not you planned on turning them in.

I used to take a bus from Easton, PA, and go to the Village just to buy boot vinyl. $5.10 each way. Couldn't beat it. Several stores kept them right out in the open. The Golden Disc on Bleecker was one. My favorite shop was a basement store called Farfel's on West 4th (I believe). It was about 15-foot square with tons of vinyl. I could literally spend hours in that store. I believe he eventually moved to Jersey.

During the 80s, it was records shows in Philly and Pittsburgh.

[ItalProgRules]

As a teen, we would go to this funny little run-down shack in an industrial area of Niagara Falls, NY called ZOUNDZ 2001 (the "2001" must have sounded very futuristic in the 70s!) Place was run by an acid-damaged old hippie dude with little half-naked children running in and out.

We got all the best boots there. I still remember the thrill of riding my bike home with my ill-gotten gains tucked under my arm.

Then, just to be pricks, we wouldn't tell the other kids at school where we were getting all these cool boots.

Still have most of the good ones.

[ronmac]

We used to go the New Hope, PA to buy boots a few times a year. We had a boot guide titled "Hot Wacks," which some of you might be familiar with. So, we'd be in this guy's store pulling out albums and looking them up in the books to check sound quality ratings (which weren't always reliable). He's be watching us from his check-out counter squirming like crazy, thinking we were from the FBI or FCC trying to find contraband to bust him with.

Bought tons of good ones there. The good ol' days.