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Wilton Said...
02-07-2013, 08:49 PM
Is there any piece or section of music (original or cover) that you still find tricky to play/perform no matter how many times you've played it? Post your video link of the section or song with an explanation.

For me it's the 1st keyboard solo in a song called The Empty Sky. I don't consider myself a keyboard player and do much better playing basic piano rhythms or holding down chords. But that can get boring, so I started to solo which takes me a looonggg time to get right. Real keyboard players may laugh at my struggle and that's OK. This particular solo still requires me to practice a lot.
The offending section is at the .39sec mark to the .52sec mark.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZy8HtcLgRw

Wilton

Baribrotzer
02-07-2013, 11:32 PM
Just about everything.

I came to music late, didn't have the kind of first-rate teachers who can teach musicianship as well as technique, and have always found playing a struggle. If it's hard, I screw it up. If it's easy, I get lazy, lose concentration, and also screw it up.

Progbear
02-08-2013, 02:34 AM
Um...all of it?

During my classical guitar training, I never managed to master fingerstyle tremolo. I just can’t get my fingers to move fast enough.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:“Pääntaivuttelun seuraukset”-Pekka Pohjola/Keesojen lehto

Mikhael
02-08-2013, 11:55 AM
Holdsworth. It drives me up a wall trying to get my fingers in the right places fast enough to sound that smooth.

No Pride
02-08-2013, 12:24 PM
"Donna Lee," a bebop tune that was supposedly written by Miles Davis, though it's credited to Charlie Parker on some recordings. To me it sounds like a Parker tune, but that's a whole 'nother conversation... BTW, when Jaco Pastorius recorded it and made it the first track on his debut, half of the jazz electric bass players in the world decided they had to learn it (and I actually learned it from that recording). But I digress...

I don't have trouble with most of it, but there's a few spots that I find hard to play, especially at the proper tempo. I used to think that being a horn player's tune, it just doesn't sit well on the guitar, but I've talked to sax and trumpet players about it and most of them say, "no, it's a hard tune on any instrument." Sometimes a month will go by where I haven't practiced it, but I always come back to it. It's just one of those challenges that I feel compelled to conquer; I want to be able to play it at the intended tempo without struggling. Some day...

Oh, here's the tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hANODMX9c5g

nosebone
02-08-2013, 01:09 PM
I agree Ernie, Donna Lee is a bitch.

I've tried many fingerings over the years but it's still hard.

There's a lot of stuff I wrote that gives me trouble if I don't shed it regulary.

Like the line at 1:05 in Almost Babylon,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUIyE6xErpE

No Pride
02-08-2013, 01:21 PM
I agree Ernie, Donna Lee is a bitch.

I've tried many fingerings over the years but it's still hard.

There's a lot of stuff I wrote that gives me trouble if I don't shed it regulary.

Like the line at 1:05 in Almost Babylon
I can believe it, Chris!

rapidfirerob
02-08-2013, 03:06 PM
I agree Ernie, Donna Lee is a bitch.

I've tried many fingerings over the years but it's still hard.

There's a lot of stuff I wrote that gives me trouble if I don't shed it regulary.

Like the line at 1:05 in Almost Babylon,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUIyE6xErpE
Big fan of your music, as well as Ernie's.

Adm.Kirk
02-09-2013, 02:24 AM
Achilles Last Stand. No matter how many times I played it back in the days when I had a band, it was always challenging. I originally learned it on guitar, and then bass. We never played it the same way twice. Someone would always forget someething somewhere along the way. But what a fun piece of music to play.

Bill

Levgan
02-13-2013, 01:03 AM
Our music is not as complex as that of many other people posting on this board, and besides, I tend to write it by actually fooling around on the piano (still don't use any software at all), so in the end, there is no stuff that I find tricky to perform in our repertoire - at best, I need to spend a couple of days practicing, and from then on it all usually goes rather smooth.

Not so with singing, though. I have a very average voice, and the vocal melodies that I write for our tunes are often testing its limits. The obvious solution would be picking up another singer, which also might allow me to diversify the keyboard parts and make them more elaborate. But, much as we tried, it just does not work - any pro singing just kills the easy-going, quirky, amateur vibe of the whole affair. So I guess I'll keep struggling with my own vocal parts.

Rarebird
02-13-2013, 05:43 AM
Everything I write.

Yodelgoat
02-14-2013, 03:04 PM
Wilton: It sounds like your synth solo phrasing just lacks a little thinking outside the box. The part you played isnt bad at all, in fact its pretty good to my ears. its just not perhaps what an experienced keybordist would do. I'm exctly the same on guitar, I kinda get boxed in with one riff and I cant seem break into something that really moves the music beyond what is stuck in my head. I do very short guitar solos as a result. Just a phrase - perhaps two. You may be concentrating on playing the part, where a Rick Wakeman can go beyond that without a thought because its second nature. He can use his imgination while those without his skill are thinking with their memories.

Just a thought. Call the observations stupid, but your chops are actually quite good.

Wilton Said...
02-14-2013, 07:08 PM
Wilton: It sounds like your synth solo phrasing just lacks a little thinking outside the box. The part you played isnt bad at all, in fact its pretty good to my ears. its just not perhaps what an experienced keybordist would do. I'm exctly the same on guitar, I kinda get boxed in with one riff and I cant seem break into something that really moves the music beyond what is stuck in my head. I do very short guitar solos as a result. Just a phrase - perhaps two. You may be concentrating on playing the part, where a Rick Wakeman can go beyond that without a thought because its second nature. He can use his imgination while those without his skill are thinking with their memories.

Just a thought. Call the observations stupid, but your chops are actually quite good.
I guess I should've mentioned that the synth solo I posted was the studio version (which means a few different takes and a lot of punch ins) which I'm fairly happy with. It's when I play it live that I get into trouble. But you are correct, synth soloing is not natural for me so my phrasing is probably not what a REAL synth player would do.

Thanks for the kind words however.

It's great to know that most musicians no matter what the level have trouble with some part of their own repertoire. I read an interview with Neil Peart where he stated that both Tom Sawyer and YYZ are still a challange for him to play at the level he would like to on a consistent basis.

Wilton

everythingtoexcess
02-14-2013, 09:08 PM
There are a couple tunes on the new Pinnacle album that are just hell. Getting in shape to play Too Far Gone and Somewhere Between for the CD release took HOURS. I'm absolutely dreading having to work up Some Just Sleep, but I'm betting that'll have to happen soon.

Mikhael
02-15-2013, 10:06 AM
I absolutely HATE when I write something I can't play! It makes it really hard to relax and get into the song knowing I'll probably flub that part when it comes up. Grrrr...

Rarebird
02-15-2013, 10:22 AM
I absolutely HATE when I write something I can't play! It makes it really hard to relax and get into the song knowing I'll probably flub that part when it comes up. Grrrr...

No problem with that. I can't play anything I, or someone else, writes. The main problem would be, finding people who are willing to play what I write. Till then, I have to rely on my computer.

WHORG
03-14-2013, 12:07 PM
Chopin

BobM
03-14-2013, 03:49 PM
Karn Evil 9 Second Impression. Damn imposible fingering at any speed.

DaleGtr
05-08-2013, 02:44 PM
Holdsworth. It drives me up a wall trying to get my fingers in the right places fast enough to sound that smooth.

Jeezus yes! I crippled my tendons trying to get In the Dead of Night (part I) down recently! I had to simplify one lick and pooch the rhythms on a couple of others. I've been hurting for 3 months now. Thanks Allan! :-)

DGuitarist
06-25-2013, 09:14 PM
Karn Evil 9 Second Impression. Damned impossible fingering, at any speed.

We may eventually cover that.
For now, it's Free Hand.
And Dance On A Volcano.
And In The Dead Of Night.
And Red, too.

ALL are challenging - but that's what our prog tribute band does.
Check it out.

Jefferson James
06-26-2013, 11:11 AM
If I could find Tricky, I suppose I would ask him to play something off of Maxinquaye.

Dean Watson
06-26-2013, 11:27 AM
UK's Presto Vivace and Reprise .... I learned it once, have completely forgotten it since ...

There was a time where I felt compelled to learn other people's songs. I think when you are first learning you use your ability to learn 'harder' material as a way to guage your progress. But now I never do .. ever ( except for cheesy lounge piano stuff that I periodically get asked to do ). I really can't play much of anybody else's tunes now, becuase I concentrate solely on improvisation and recording and writing of my own music. Even then, when I sit down at a piano, most of the time I just improvise.

Dean Watson
06-26-2013, 11:29 AM
Actually, truth be told, if I had to 'make a band' and go on tour, I'd likely have to learn my own stuff over again, because you get caught up in the writing moment, record the bit and move on - rarely to every play that part again ....

Mikhael
06-26-2013, 04:03 PM
Actually, truth be told, if I had to 'make a band' and go on tour, I'd likely have to learn my own stuff over again, because you get caught up in the writing moment, record the bit and move on - rarely to every play that part again ....

AMEN!!

digestif
06-27-2013, 09:04 AM
Neil Peart's drum parts sometimes feel unnatural to play for me - particular examples are the runs with the bass in YYZ and the start of Spirit of Radio - feels like an arbitrary number of notes rather than a musically natural number of notes - yet I find odd time grooves very natural.

Mikhael
06-27-2013, 12:21 PM
Neil Peart's drum parts sometimes feel unnatural to play for me - particular examples are the runs with the bass in YYZ and the start of Spirit of Radio - feels like an arbitrary number of notes rather than a musically natural number of notes - yet I find odd time grooves very natural.

I might ask if you were classically trained? Not that it matters much, but some things are a techniques that sometimes one doesn't come across on their own. Plus, things like "Spirit of the Radio" were him playing around with the melody given to him, so some of that's coming from a bassist or guitarist. Plus, who knows - it COULD be arbitrary, knowing that bunch...